037: Tech Career Development in 2024: Navigating AI Challenges and Opportunities

00:00 - 00:15 | Bart:
Test and invest is compounding the skills that you learned in your career, applying them, learning them, and then refining them through each experience. There really is no limit to it. It's just based on the risk you're willing to take and what gets you excited every day about the job or the role or the opportunity.

00:17 - 02:45 | Chistopher:

Welcome to podcast for financially focused technology employees. Are you working for equity? Do you have questions on how your career and money work together? Then welcome. Every week we discuss strategies and tactics for how to grow your career, build wealth and reach your financial and lifestyle goals. Welcome to TechCruise and Money Talk. I'm your host, Christopher Nelson, and welcome back to the second part of my interview with Bart Finelli. Bart Finelli is somebody who took some skills, built it to expertise, expertise meaning something that you can build a brand and a business around. He's done exactly that. He has a startup company, Skillibrium , that is now all of his intellectual property that he's developed over his career is now the engine and it is the solution to a lot of people's go to market problems in this episode we're going to break down what are some of the key things that in skills that he developed to actually accomplish this meaning you know how do you protect your ip when you're working for other companies. What are the things that he does today to make sure that he's continuously learning, continuously growing? And how did he ultimately realize that he was at this inflection point where he could stop learning and really start building this particular company? You're going to get a lot out of this episode, and we still have some more stories of Splunk and people that we know, but I'm excited to share this episode with you. Let's get back to our conversation with Bart Finley. All right. And we are back here with Bart Finelli. So really the conversations in part one of the show, you know, all the stories, the experience at Splunk, it was brings back a really a lot of good memories. Really enjoy. I think the real value that you and I can give to other technology employees, though, Bart, is helping them understand how you took this concept, this discipline, this skill that you turned into expertise, and now you're literally starting a company. So let's pause on that and give everybody you know, the the information on, you know, Skillibrium  and now post out systems, you've taken everything that we talked through, and you've created a company around it.

02:45 - 05:10 | Bart:

I have. Yeah. It's crazy is that, like, I never thought I would be a founder. Most founders are technical, right? That at least that's what I get. That's what I get told. However, when I read and I'm not an avid reader, I should read more, because I like to create Right. So I think of it, you're either consuming or you're creating and giving something out. So I like to lean to the create. But now that I've been doing that more with Skillibrium , I'm also better at reading to learn because you have to learn. Sure. The sweet spot for founders is you have to have been there and done it to a large degree to find the ability to repeat it successfully, unless you're technically brilliant and you find a new way to do something. I'm not the technical guy. I'm good at understanding how to drive outcomes, which was part of what I learned at both BMC and Splunk, and then applied more aggressively through my career as I got to OutSystems. Everything you do from day one of an employee's existence in a go-to-market org should be pattern matched to the desired outcome that the company's pursuing. Right, yes. That's it. So, so that in the from a skillibrium perspective, that means what we learn by role, what we practice by skill, what we apply while we execute our job and role, and how our leadership coaches and develops us to that has to all be in sync. Yes. As much as possible. And it has to all be consumable from one place. Hmm. No context switching. Right. And today it doesn't exist. And everybody's trying to do it in their own way. And the world is a big place and the markets are massive. And at Skillibre, we're doing our own thing. We're building this way for go-to-market teams and their leaders to operate in sync, on cadence, and serve the customer better. And it's all about role-based skills development. which align to process sequencing, which aligns to workflows, which aligns to customer outputs, which all kicks off metadata, which should be used forever by the company serving the customer. And that's what we're doing.

05:10 - 06:13 | Chistopher:

And all of this was built from this idea back at BMC and understanding of value selling there and then your career oscillating between teaching value selling, executing value selling, And so, you know, there had to be at some point, you know, when you look back at your career and you got to this point, at some point you realized, and this is what I try and teach and coach people is, you may not see the immediate value in what you're doing today, but you have to look at. you know, patterns around you, what you're doing. And that if you, if you strive to excellence in what you're doing, right, you, you can actually create a product out of it. Because I actually think, I think founders are people that solve challenging business problems. I don't think it's technical or non-technical. That's what it is. And there you go. And so I do want to try and understand that at what there had to be an inflection point where you thought, let me continue to catalog and bring this stuff with me because What I'm doing here, you know, is valuable.

06:13 - 09:14 | Bart:

I like the idea of cataloging. So, so I, every time you catalog, you, you, you're cataloging, um, ideas, a focus area, a tool, a workflow that how things relate together. So there's this concept. I, I, I'm a big into music, not, I don't play. I love live concerts and I listen to music. That's kind of my, that's my thing. But there's music, my favorite part of music is core progression. When something builds, builds, builds, builds, builds to a crescendo and then it changes. So core progression is what I'm trying to do as a person. I'm trying to build myself and change my skill sets and learn by pulling the best of the best together. so that I can continue to improve and serve my family, community, myself, my business aspirations. Well, guess what? Every company is trying to do the same thing in their own way. They just don't know that they're doing that. And so I kept having to convince people. I kept having to buy third party products. I kept having to duct tape and bailing wire things together to get the concepts to flow. And I said to myself, this is futile. And so after OutSystems, I interviewed and I had a handful of contracts where I was going to work as a president, I was going to work as a CRO, complementary roles to what I was in, to do the same thing I had done at OutSystems. And I said to myself, For one reason or another, they didn't work out. And I said to myself, that's it. I'm going to do it. I'm going to build it because I can't do it for someone else anymore. And I'm going to just own it. And literally, it's a risk everything moment because I'm not walk away filthy rich. I had a great career and a great run at Splunk. It afforded us all optionality. Yes. Right. Like it was amazing. But I can't say if I don't work ever again, I'm infinitely wealthy and I can provide for my family. I just I'm not that guy. I'm not there. And I don't, I would be destructive if I did anything other than work and focus on my family, quite honestly, you spend money, that's all you would do. Right? Or what are you just going to exist? So I said, I'm going to go build it. And here, here we are. And so the first product is out, it's the four box coaching framework, three more products will come in the month of, we'll say March of 2024. And it will start to build the holistic approach for LPAC, learn, practice, execute, coach, remediate, so that you can, for SaaS tech, go to market teams, which is what we all did together in one way or another while we were at Splunk and what we tried to do when we were at OutSystems at Shorter Window. And it works. You get people on the same page. You refine certain skills, sales, pre-sales, post-sales. You serve the customer better. Outcomes follow. I'm oversimplifying it for our conversation. Sure. But that is it. I'm living it.

09:14 - 09:57 | Chistopher:

Well, and that's the fundamental process that has come out of years of experience that you can go tops down, and I know you can go as deep as people want to very quickly. What are some of the practices, right? When you think about creating a process, solving this problem, it sounds like, and I know from experience, you had the process nailed and you kept iterating on that with this group of thought leaders that you were working with. And so today, what are some of the things that you do to keep iterating on the process side and now you're trying to incorporate it into technology? What are some of those habits that have you looking and seeing what you've built and adding to it?

09:57 - 12:01 | Bart:

My belief system is companies, all they are, are a group of people executing on an idea. That's all a company is. There's a great video, Richard Branson video. He's sitting around, uh, it's like a 30 second video. He's like, I will never stop. I'll never stop being an entrepreneur. And then he goes, well, all entrepreneurism is, is creating an idea with like-minded people and bringing it to fruition by collaborating. And I'm like, Oh my God, that's exactly, I totally believe in that. So if we deconstruct that, you're going to, if you go to work for someone else, you're going to work to help them achieve their vision or their dream. I was okay with that because I was still learning in a lot of ways. But today, I want to flip the switch. I want to bring people on a journey in a company that is centered on helping other companies operationalize and produce indicators or measures that are highly powerful to investors and to the market. That's what focusing on the core go-to-market engine using Skillibrium  will afford. So I'm continuously deconstructing the roles that touch the go-to-market function. and what should be automated for those roles, and what should be pattern matched so that they can be the most effective in one platform. And if you think about it, like Salesforce is wonderful as it is, and as much as they own the market, it's still not the whole CRM market, but it's a back office product now. They're trying like hell to make it. It's so hard to get anything out of Salesforce. Right. Yeah. Well, so so and I think, you know, one day they'll they'll solve that. But my belief is I don't I don't know that that being the epicenter of companies is the right thing or not. So why not challenge the norm?

12:02 - 12:41 | Chistopher:

Right. And bring something else there. But it sounds like, you know, you're constantly, you know, I'm sure as you're working with companies to understanding what are different roles that they're bringing to the table. And you're constantly going through this check down list of understanding. you know, do things need to grow and change? Because all of our, we, you know, I think you've said this earlier, it's like, we know that everything is going to grow and evolve and change where it's can't be a fixed mindset. And so, yeah, it sounds like just constantly being out there, and understanding what's happening in the marketplace is going to give you an infusion of new ideas.

12:41 - 14:06 | Bart:

Oh, yeah. Well, so here's what I've learned. And this will be encouraging. All of the companies that are out there, however you gauge their level of success, whether it's their culture, whether it's their stock price, whether it's their product, whatever it may be, they're all successful in their own minds in some way. They're all successful. They're existing. They provide employment. They provide a good product and a good service. It might not be exceptional. And they're all broken to a degree. Yes, every company, every company. So therefore, that's an opportunity in my mind to help to build for myself in the most intelligent way possible with other thought leaders. Because there's no one person that can that can build a company. It doesn't work that way. So if I've learned anything, it's go-to-market is difficult. It's changing constantly. Most companies don't get it right. Most non-go-to-market organizations in companies don't understand what levers to pull. And someone's got to give them the answers. And it might as well be someone that's had the experience from 60 to 1.5 billion with multiple smart people that let us run our own businesses within the business. That was the beauty of our time at Splunk. Go sell your vision and you don't need approval, go sell it.

14:06 - 15:27 | Chistopher:

Well, and I think one of the other things that it's important for people to understand is that, and you're a great example of this, is there is a role in technology for business focused people. And one of the things that Splunk got right, because I have been at other technology companies that are so engineering focused, that, you know, it's hard for me to understand how the customer is engaged at all. And many times it could be an engineering focused customer. But you and I both know, as you get into larger organizations, there's going to be finance people, there's going to be procurement people that are involved, that if you can streamline the engagement with them, and you can be focused into their aspect of the business, you can sell better. And I say sell better. And I repeat all this to say, to roll up, because it's so important that people understand. Going back to the beginning, you felt like, I was always a little bit on the outside. They were doing this very technically focused. I'm this business guy. And you found a way to take this vision of making sales more business focused, more business friendly. Arguably, you start off as, let me just make it friendly to No, let me actually deliver huge value to the business and give ROI that then now has become a product that you're building a company on. And that's really that roll up and roll down I want people to really take away.

15:28 - 17:20 | Bart:

Well, so that's accurate. Let me tell you where I think I was different. And it worked for me personally. I felt like I had to build allies within the companies I worked in. And that was an accelerant to success. So if you were aligned with your chief counsel on how you were structuring contracts, then as a CRO or even as a VP, then their interaction with the sellers is going to be simpler because they both know what is appropriate and what is not appropriate. And those are the swim lanes you described. We all create these lanes. And if we stay within the lanes, we can probably go 150 miles an hour. But if we go outside of the lanes, it slows us way down to 50 miles an hour because we got to So it's just all about alignment and narrative, and then automating that alignment and that narrative. And at Skillibrium , we call it cross-sections. There is a cross-section of value between the field roles, sales, pre-sales, post-sales, and the customer. And if you're living in that cross-section of value, your ability to serve the customer exponentially improves. If you have that same cross-section internally with finance, with legal, with marketing, your ability to serve the company and then serve the customer only improves. And the only way to do that is to place the skill-based roles in that cross-section in one place. And we've done that with duct tape and bailing wire with your help at Splunk. We bootstrapped it at OutSystems, and now we're building it organically at Skillibrium .

17:21 - 17:45 | Chistopher:

Let's take a minute and talk about, you'd mentioned before how you intentionally protected your IP, going into out systems. As people do think of, they're in companies, they're creating things. Obviously, when you exited Splunk, there had to be a conversation that said, hey, we did this thing here. I want to go do something else. Help people understand what that looks, what that feels like a little bit.

17:46 - 19:31 | Bart:

Yeah, so the beauty of the Splunk exit was everybody was aware the book was being written, and the book was shared IP with Sandler, as well as what Tom and I had built and or learned along our journey at Splunk. Then it became documented and part of the book, right? So organically, the work product just evolved over time until a contract got put in place that defined the workflows, defined the verbiage, defined the name. Skillibrium  was a company in 2017. And then it proliferated from there. And that was part of when I went into OutSystems. It was in the form of an email because I had started building the code base. I thought I was going to go build Skillibrium  in 2017. And then I ended up joining OutSystems a year later. And that when we came to the agreement, yes, you can build it while you're here. So so there's some mutual benefit. I got to experience the build. I got to experience the integration into the company. I got to build relationships with the people that were willing to change the way the business was run. And, and then when I departed Skillibrium , as part of the separation, when I was leaving, excuse me, when I departed out systems, as part as part of my leaving, we documented the IP agreement to make sure there was because we built a code stack there. Right. So so we made sure that it was clean. And that was they were totally agreeable.

19:31 - 20:34 | Chistopher:

Well, so it's so important. I think I think the big takeaway there is, you know, moving with intention, you see the value in what you've built, you know, this story, I like the fact that it was really in the writing the book that many people knew about that, then you start solidifying this and it becomes this. you know, piece of work that is then defined, if you will, then you move that, you created a company, move some IP into that and continue to preserve that going forward. And I know I, myself, as I was, you know, working, building a private equity company, and I have some ways that I've created some coaching, some skills, uh, the way that I've managed directors over the years, I always just write a light IP agreement. It's something, you know, some templates and things that I've used and I want to make sure I can take it with me. And it's just important that people realize like people are doing this. It's, it's totally okay. And you just need to put it out there and um, you know, always make sure that you do surround yourself with some good legal counsel.

20:35 - 22:50 | Bart:

Yeah, that's exactly right. But it's just words on paper. This is the craziest thing. It starts with words on paper. Yes. So had I not done my best practices gig at BMC Software when I got exposed to finance and RevRack and legal, I don't know that I would have had the aptitude to do it, quite honestly, because those were my learning. I had to learn by doing. So those roles gave me it gave me the mental strength and the knowledge to build something because I learned, wow, this is just coming to agreement on a piece of paper, right? That drives a result for a customer. Actually, I can put my thoughts down on this paper and get people to agree with and then you move forward. And so it's all these are all things that they're available to all of us. And today we're decentralized now. Yes, you can go do your thing anywhere. And you should. So that's the beauty of it. It's more about a time and a point in time in your career where you either have to consume to learn or you're going to create to give. And I'm in the create to give. I'm creating Skillibrium because I want to leave a legacy. I should say I'm co-creating. There's so many smart people helping me. And I want to give to them. because people gave to me, otherwise I wouldn't be sitting here. It's kind of like I want it to be a full circle thing. Not because I want to be completely altruistic in the world. It's not about that. It just feels right. And I'm capitalist through and through. And my wife's Danish, and a lot of people know that, but we're complete opposites. And But you can be a capitalist and you can be altruistic to a degree and help people along the way and give them a piece of the action, a piece of the company. And then they get to enjoy the reward. And I think Splunk was great at that, by the way. It really was. They shared. Splunk was very generous to all of us. And that helped us sell the brand. And it's why we're here today.

22:50 - 23:54 | Chistopher:

It is. And this is another great learning point where I think in a career, there is a time that you are consuming a lot of knowledge because you're learning and you're building this skill set. and it reaches an inflection point. And I know this happens to me. I mean, this is why I'm in this role is now I want to be able to create to give and it can be a business and that's okay. And I think many of us, you know, as we are entering this phase of creating to give, I think we want to be able to deliver a great value, but we also want to continue to build equity, continue to build assets that increase in value because Ultimately, that's what we learned. That's what I learned working at tech at great companies is, hey, I can actually build something of value that will then, you know, continue to be an asset. And I think that, you know, customers come to participate in in these different offerings when it helps them accelerate, it reduces learning, you know, and allows them to get to different places quicker.

23:55 - 24:43 | Bart:

Yeah, it's pretty stunning. You know, I'm a learner, a hard learner. I think I don't know how to define it. Like I have to put my hands on the keyboard and do it to learn it. Yeah. So that so that to me is, is ultimately the goal of equilibrium and or my my existence for the rest of my career is to make it easy for other people to do the same. Because it was very hard. It was hard for me. Like it was very stressful to break through for me personally. And now it's not stressful. Like the job I'm doing what I was now meant to be doing. It's totally non-stressful. There are hard days, but I'm excited to do it. And, you know, we all go through waves in our career.

24:43 - 26:07 | Chistopher:

Well, and people need to realize and understand this, too, is that, you know, for all of us, the the consuming and learning phase is hard because I would say that it's it's the environment that we're in. in the environment is one that we love, right? We get this front row seat to the future. We get to impact the way that people work, and in some companies, the way people live forever. But it's at a cost. High tech companies are, you have to grow. You have to keep growing. And that means that the company keeps changing. You have to change every single year. You have to look back and say, the things that made me successful last year are the things that will make me unsuccessful this year. I've got to change. And if you're observant and you're able to build a skill set, I feel the same way. And it's not that, right, I did learn a lot about technology, equity, and finance, why I was there, because I would sit with comp people and I asked a ton of questions. But arguably, my skill set that I built was how to be a multimodal executive. So yes, running my private equity company, running this media and education company, is second nature to me, and the stress level is a lot less. And people say, you got a lot on your plate. Are you really working less? I am. Am I really less stressed?

26:07 - 27:04 | Bart:

Yeah, you know exactly what you're doing. You know exactly what levers to pull. That's the tax you pay early in your career, and then now you reap the reward of going through all that. But what's come full circle for me is it's really more about the relationships, like all the knowledge and the success is less about me, and more about the people that have, I've learned from or that I've channeled through or with, you know, that that's, And I'm coming back, by the way, to get them all. Like, I'm coming to get you. I'm coming to get Doug May. I'm coming to get David Jenkins. Like, there's a whole list of people. I'm pretty good at bringing people on the journey. And that's what I really enjoy. And I'm in the process of rebuilding the journey so that I can go bring people and reward them for how they helped me in a lot of ways.

27:04 - 27:46 | Chistopher:

Well, and you know, I heard this from actually one of my guests is so interesting how I learned, you know, from people on the podcast. And this is even people that I know, and have known for a while. And, you know, James Harrison, who is the co founder of the gun and water project, when I asked him, like, what's his favorite way to learn? He says with people. He says like, I don't learn through books. I don't podcast. No, you know, no offense, Christopher, but it's really like sitting down in, in hearing and learning from people and their experience. And I actually think that you're very much the same way. Cause I know that you can lock into somebody and you can, you can download a ton from them.

27:48 - 28:39 | Bart:

I do. And there's a statement, the knowledge is in the room. And then Jenkins coined one from the field for the field. All the knowledge is already out there. Yeah. The company just needs to know how to harvest it and make it repeatable and consumable. Because the employees are closest to the field, especially in go-to-market, they're closest to the customer and the market itself. Where companies fall down, or where I think they're in error, is they think they can make the decisions from behind the desk. and then deliver those decisions to the field. And then the people revolt, because it's it conflicts with reality. So they don't then you lose momentum, right? But everything has to come from those that face the customers.

28:39 - 29:07 | Chistopher:

So I want to ask, you know, to wrap this up and really put a bow on it. You know, for all of our tech employees listening in, I want to ask a few key questions. to really tease out a lot of your lessons learned of your journey from building a skill to now leveraging that to build a company. Along the way, how important was it for you to be able to tell your story and articulate what you accomplished in the way of results?

29:08 - 30:55 | Bart:

So, this is a great question, because I'll give another call out. Steve Roland, who I used to work for at BMC, he gave me my shot. And he's done great. He's been at Splunk, he went to Okta, and now he's president at Clavio. He used to get on me because I would never work on my social brand. And I didn't have LinkedIn until 2010, when I started Splunk. And I'll tell you that he was spot on. It was more about me getting comfortable promoting my brand, my personal brand and what I learned, what I believed in. And that's when my success and my career started to gain trajectory. then the more comfortable I got with that, the faster it went. Because people want to learn. I think people want to, everybody has a story, but everybody should learn from each other. The whole world will go faster. There's not only one way, like, like, I want to be a sponge. So you nailed it. I do learn by doing and getting in a room with people. And I often think most, most, companies where they fail is they attempt to tell their company what to do and how to do it, rather than immersing into what's going on today and how to optimize it. Not tell them, but work collectively to optimize it. And that means you got to be coachable as a leader, as an executive, And most importantly, if you have a company that doesn't have a coachable executive that will at least listen, you got a problem. Yeah, it's going to be a rough ride. There's a lot of them out there. It's going to be a rough ride. Because you're just following along at that point. And you got to be able to contribute to the direction.

30:55 - 31:29 | Chistopher:

One hundred percent. So, you know, you in your career, you could have taken the easy path and you could have ultimately been the astronomer and said, well, I've done some sales. I've learned sales enablement. I'm just going to be this astronomer. But you then said, nope, I'm going back into space. And you were an astronaut. You went and ran sales organizations. When people are thinking of. leveraging their skills and they learn something and then going to actually do it and execute it, you know, what, how would you describe the value of being able to invest in test in what you've built to go do it?

31:30 - 33:06 | Bart:

Yeah, great question. I think it's, I call it the 80%. You only need about 80% of the knowledge, especially the later you get into your career, because your ability to be dynamic and adjust and learn the additional 20% for the role. Like, unless you're CRO to CRO. Right. And everything underneath you in both companies is exactly the same, which is not realistic ever. The roles are diametrically different. They're different, even though the title is the same. So you're always going to learn something new. So to me, test and invest is compounding the skills that you learned in your career, applying them, learning them and then refining them through each experience. So you should never stop. There's no limit. There really is no limit to it. It's just based on the risk you're willing to take and what gets you excited every day about the job or the role or the opportunity. So you got to go, there's no straight line to the top. There's not. We can, we can tag, we can coin, we can coin that one. It's a mess, man. Look, you and I both know we've been, I, I know we've had our hard times in the same office. Sure. Rest in peace with Doug. Yup. Right. Doug Haar, where we fought out technology problems with vendors that were serving us. Yes. Difficult stuff, but I learned through that. Everybody learned through that. Everybody learned through that. Yeah, we were all faced with things that we don't know we're going to face. It's true.

33:06 - 34:17 | Chistopher:

Yeah, I think that going in testing and when you're out in the field and you are in live fire exercises where, you know, money's at stake, reputations are at stake, you know, you're trying to deliver something in a time that you commit to and you face problems, that's where those types of tests are going to then, you know, make you or break you. And if they end up making you, then what you don't realize that you get is you get inoculated to another level of pressure, another level of weight, like you've literally stacked two more plates onto the squat rack and you're boom, now all of a sudden, no, I'm pushing three plates on each side and you don't realize it. And the one thing, I mean, the takeaway that I would give from that, that I always just enjoyed about everybody that we had around the table is always maintain respect for the individual. You can have disagreements and make sure that the disagreement is not about personality. It's like focusing on the problem. And that was one thing that I think we learned very quickly that if we execute in that way, we're going to solve a lot more problems and move forward faster than if we get weighed down by breaking those invisible barriers.

34:17 - 34:46 | Bart:

Yeah, people work for people. And collaboration today, more than ever, is the only way it really works because we all have choices. And that's a personal brand thing. you choose to be where you are. And if the culture doesn't fit, or if the underpinning way the business is operating, doesn't suit your long term goal, you either have to try to change it, or you have to leave and go somewhere that fits.

34:47 - 35:27 | Chistopher:

Or you gotta create your own. That's right, or go build your own. Or you go build your own. And I think that there's a lot of merit to that because you now, more than anything, you know exactly what you're looking for. You know the people, the type of personalities, you know, and you, yeah, I think that that's a great concept that people get their head around is when they sort of hit this pivot and they're in this you know, create and grow mode, you, with all of that experience that you have and all those tough times, you're going to put together something that is, you know, bespoke and is really focused. That's going to give you a lot more than, you know, when you're early in your career.

35:27 - 35:39 | Bart:

Yeah, absolutely. And you can do it from a place of experience rather than guessing. Yeah. I just couldn't imagine at my age retiring. I couldn't imagine it.

35:39 - 37:48 | Chistopher:

Well, I mean, I don't think, I don't believe, I believe that the concept of retirement, now you're getting me on a soapbox. I'm going to fire up for a minute because we're just, we're flowing right now, man. I think retirement was a concept that was built out of the 50s and 60s that no longer applies. I believe that retiring in its definition is you would take a service offline And I think it was when people were working for these single companies and, you know, honestly, I don't think that they were putting in as much hard work during the days. I think they had a little bit more balance during their time at work. And then, you know, they went off and they were retired. But I believe that it was broken in the way that a lot of our health practices were broken at the time. um people then wander around they don't have purpose and I think that it's it's very I agree very challenging and so the way that I think about it is I think of it as I want to be planning the exit from where I'm at to graduating to the next level and when you graduate I think that the graduation that you and I went through is, okay, now I actually don't need to consume and learn. I can actually grow and give. And I can actually now do something differently because I've built a network of people around me. I've built an expertise that I can flex. I've also built some other businesses that are very supportive to me financially. And so I'm planning, okay, where do I want to graduate from the next level, right? How do I want to, in five years, do something that's a little bit different? And to me, it's not about, I don't even think of it as working anymore. I think about, I want to keep creating, to your point. I think I was made to create. And ultimately, I want to get to the point where I'm able to spend the majority of my time just serving and mentoring others. Like I think, you know, that I see myself as an advisor. I'm always going to be an investor. And I want to be to the point where I can just be spending time pouring into the youth because I think that, you know, that's ultimately going to be my purpose is I think I'm a coach at heart. Right. Yeah.

37:49 - 38:17 | Bart:

I like it. I believe in it. And technology has afforded us all this ability. So I'm thankful to tech. And I think the social channels that are out there podcasting like this, it allows us to stay fresh. It allows us to stay relevant. And it allows us to continue to learn and share. And I don't know that there's anything else. Anything else is a job, but I don't want a job. Right.

38:17 - 38:42 | Chistopher:

Which I think is at some point in time is relevant to build skills. And so what do you think in 2024, you know, where, where should tech employees start with, you know, this concept of, you know, skill building to expertise? What do you think people should be focusing on right now? If there is a, you know, mid career, you know, sales guy or, you know, director somewhere in a tech company, what, what advice would you give them?

38:43 - 39:59 | Bart:

So, the network is clearly where the money is. I think you can't do a job, you can't expect to advance if you're not punching above your weight class, so to speak in boxing. You got to punch way above your weight, which means if I'm a mid-level leader, I have to start acting like a CRO and I have to start feeling like a CRO and supporting my CRO so that I'm ready for that next step closer to be a CRO. If I'm a seller, then you might think about how you're going to brush up on social and how you're going to create awareness and or a network that you can harvest for your whole career. So some of these young folks today, amazing, thousands and thousands and thousands of followers, and they have good content. And what that does is it allows them to build a foundation for the rest of their careers. So how you act, what your brand is, and how you show up punching above your weight is probably the best advice, no matter what you focus on. no matter what your job is, you're just stagnating if you're not approaching the network, if you're not punching above your weight, you're not improving your skills constantly. That's money right now.

39:59 - 40:09 | Chistopher:

That's how I think about it. So I would like your opinion on how do you see generative AI coming into the workplace and in helping or creating challenges?

40:10 - 41:34 | Bart:

It's a split, right? So I've talked about this in the past. It's already some of the flaws are showing up. There's lawsuits and some of the data is compromised. There's copyright, whatever it may be. I think it's totally amazing. To me, it's the internet times 100. You get an interactive way to garner information. Where the flaw is, I think those that use the information but don't internalize it, if they're using it to sell as an example, they'll be called out by their buyers. So, I think it's going to make people lazy and they're not going to want to put in the deep work and that will expose them. So those that are smart will use the data that they can garner from AI, whether it's the large model that's public or a small model within the company. But using it and then internalizing will accelerate success without question. You can't just rely on what's generated by the machine. You've got to take it and then internalize it so that you can have a narrative. And process it. So the good and the bad. I think it gets us to data faster, but the risk is people think that's all they do. Those that are smart take the data, harness it, and create a narrative, and then they'll benefit from it.

41:34 - 41:48 | Chistopher:

All right, we are approaching the end here. So we're going to jump into our fire round. Five quick questions here to get some knowledge, more knowledge from Bart Finelli. What's the worst career advice you ever received?

41:48 - 42:07 | Bart:

I don't know if it's career advice, but I had one, one leader. I use the tagline of one team. They told me not to don't do that. This is not a team. Oh, Okay. Ouch. Okay. I ignored that. Yeah. So one team, it's all about teaming as far as I'm concerned. Oh, it is.

42:07 - 42:11 | Chistopher:

Yeah. It's team sport what we do. That was bad advice. How do you keep learning?

42:11 - 42:45 | Bart:

Immersion. Uh, back to, uh, people around me, immersing myself in, um, asking tons of questions. Tons. Who, what, when, where, why, how, tell me, explain, describe. People get my wife and kids. They're like, Oh, can you stop? I'm relentless because that's how I learned through the conversation. I can't learn through a one direction channel. Right. Serially, I have to have it has to be bi directional. So for me, it's just throwing myself in the middle and doing it.

42:45 - 42:47 | Chistopher:

What do you do to recharge music?

42:48 - 42:59 | Bart:

listen, either headphones, either live, um, or, uh, watch, uh, I'll watch documentaries, things like that. Um, music. I just love music. Yeah.

42:59 - 43:07 | Chistopher:

It's a great escape. It is fills a soul. It's good stuff. What's advice that you'd give your, your younger self for working in tech?

43:07 - 43:24 | Bart:

Oh, Great question. Be bold sooner. Advocate for yourself as early and be vocal as early as you can in your career, provided you are grounded in intent, meaning your intentions are good. Right.

43:24 - 43:29 | Chistopher:

It will never hurt you. And what soft skill has helped your career the most?

43:29 - 43:57 | Bart:

Emotional intelligence or awareness. I've had to learn that, by the way. I was a blunt instrument in the early part of the career. I was pretty straight, like just scorched earth. And I've realized that that's not necessarily the best way to do it. So emotional intelligence and awareness is without question, to me, the most valuable. I agree.

43:57 - 44:02 | Chistopher:

Well, thank you so much for spending your time with us today, Bart. How can people learn more about Skillibrium ?

44:03 - 44:26 | Bart:

Skillibrium .com or follow Skillibrium  on LinkedIn. That would be great. And I will be picking up the action being a little more outward on our messaging and our products in 2024. And then hopefully they'll tune into your podcast and they can learn from you as well. And I look forward to great success for both of us.

44:27 - 44:33 | Chistopher:

Thank you so much, Bart. Appreciate you having me here and we'll make sure and put all those links in the show notes. Thanks so much.

44:33 - 44:35 | Bart:

Awesome, man. Thank you, Christopher. Take care.

44:40 - 45:18 | Chistopher:

Thanks so much for listening to this episode. If you didn't catch on, this is the second part of two episodes. So I would encourage you to go back to episode number 36, where we really walked through Bart's career and how he realized that he had this skill that he could turn into expertise. I think there were a lot of rich takeaways from this episode. Thank you so much for joining. My ask would be, please go to Tech Careers and Money News if you want to be getting in your inbox every single week, some tips, some strategies on how you can grow your career, build wealth and meet your financial goals. Go to Tech Careers and Money News today and subscribe. Thank you very much.