046: Using Radical Empathy to Lead and Live with Erin Deihl

00:00 - 00:17 | Erin:
We all wore masks to work before 2020. We humanize work, and you can have an intern and a CEO in the same room, but for those two hours, they're on the same playing field. And even though we know the titles are different, we're asking you to do something completely different in your day-to-day, and the magic happens in that play.

00:19 - 01:41 | Christopher:

Welcome to the podcast for financially focused technology employees. Are you working for equity? Do you have questions on how your career and money work together? Then welcome. Every week we discuss strategies and tactics for how to grow your career, build wealth and reach your financial and lifestyle goals. Okay, welcome to Tech Crews and Money Talk. Today, this is going to be a power-packed, exciting interview because when I get somebody on the other side of the mic who's got a little bit of improv experience, I know I can freestyle, I can do all the things that sometimes sets the other tech execs back a little bit. But I have got Erin, who's a big deal deal on the line today, and she is the creator of Improv-It. Gotta watch my operative words there. A unique professional development company that's rooted in improv comedy that pushes leaders and teams to laugh, yes, have some fun, learn and play and grow. She's also the host of the Improv-It podcast, a top 1% global podcast that helps develop leaders and teams through play and improv and experiential learning. And she is also, and I'm excited to talk about this as well, Amazon bestseller and a top new release of I See You, a leader's guide to energizing your team through radical empathy. Erin, welcome to the show.

01:41 - 02:09 | Erin:

Thank you, Christopher. That was an amazing intro. And I got to tell you something. Okay. So you said in profit, which I love because there's an E there. And their E is always a teal E. So we usually have like a white letterhead and then the E is teal. So it could be, I want you to see improv it, but it's improve it. And you improve it through improv. And I like that you just went improv it. And that's kind of the way that people look at it. And that's what you should do.

02:10 - 02:46 | Christopher:

That's what you should do. And I personally think in my time in tech, it was so important for me and my teams to focus on having fun. One of the most profound experiences I had, companies that I worked for, was a company called Splunk that I worked at for five years from 2011 to 2016. And one of its core values was fun. And we need this so badly in the workforce today, as stretched as we are, as overworked as we are. Help us understand what is radical empathy and how important is it for today's leaders?

02:46 - 05:24 | Erin:

Yeah, I think it's so important. I wrote a book about it because I truly believe that people need to have more empathy in order to be fulfilled at work. We are human beings, not human doings. And in the book itself, I talk about my own experience as a leader, but I also talk about what it was like to be led prior to starting and prove it. I have I spent the first 10 years of my career in experiential marketing and recruiting and in that time had two very different leaders. one who was climbing the what I call the corporate ladder. And all they wanted to do was just get ahead and they would take whoever was in their path or on their team, know who whatever was in their path along for the ride, which meant burnout. It meant just doing whatever it took to get ahead. It meant, I don't really care that you have a personal life. You are mine from morning to night. And I talk about this Blackberry blinking red light. This was during the days where Blackberries were all the craze. And for whatever reason, I couldn't get the red light to turn off my Blackberry, which was a notification from work, because it was my work and personal phone that I needed to have that somebody or something needed my attention. So through my own leadership journey or my own journey of being led, I was extremely burned out. My nervous system was completely shot. And then I had a different leader who wasn't climbing the corporate ladder. They were climbing the empathy ladder. And it was like, her name is Jen, stuck her ladder down in my hole of shame. And she helped pull me out of what was a very tumultuous beginning of a career and showed me what it's like to be led selflessly and what it's like to be an empathetic leader and truly see people for the human being, not just the human doing. And so I think empathy is the answer to so many things. It's not ruinous empathy. Kim Scott, the author of Radical Candor, talks about ruinous empathy. It's not over-empathizing and taking on others' emotions and making, if you're a super big empath, sometimes that's what happens. But it's allowing yourself to see the human behind the work first and caring for that versus the transactional things that happen on a day-to-day.

05:24 - 05:46 | Christopher:

I'm glad that you brought up Kim Scott, because I am a huge fan of her work. I had the privilege to be in one of her workshops when I was still in corporate, and it was so impactful to me. So if you were to describe radical empathy in a couple sentences, now understanding it is related to her framework, how is that described?

05:47 - 08:12 | Erin:

Yeah, and I love Kim, too. She was a guest on my show twice. Fun fact, I asked her to blurb the book, and she did get it. And she had a big family event happening around the same time I needed her to read it, and she said, I don't blurb books that I don't read. I have a rule. And she was so kind and loving, and has been so supportive through this whole process. So, shout out to her. She is amazing, and I'm so glad you got to experience her. So in her framework, ruinous empathy is kind of being a people pleaser type leader. It's over-empathizing, not having a backbone. And the way that I see empathy through my lens in this book is, first and foremost, You have to love yourself. You have to take care of yourself first. You have to fill your cup, put on your own oxygen mask, all of those metaphors that are super cliche, but mean so much. Because if your tank is not full, you have nothing to give to other people. So it's first and foremost, loving yourself, having empathy for who you are, the human being, and then having enough energy and capacity to not only put on a pair of Nike dunks that your team member is wearing and walk around in them for a moment, but really instinctively understand that there's a whole person and a whole life beyond what you're witnessing in that moment. The emotions that they may be showing, the stress that they might be under has almost always nothing to do with you. It's from a lifetime of things that have been built up. it's coming out and, you know, this spreadsheet, is it done the right way? And they get frustrated and, you know, you're seeing an emotion that's a built up emotion over time. And so selfless leadership to me looks like listening to a human being enough so you can understand them through first person, a first person lens, not take on that emotion, but understand that that person doing the work has things far beyond your capacity that you're going to be able to help with. But when you can understand that, you can lead from a different place. And that's what radical empathy means to me.

08:13 - 08:34 | Christopher:

And when you say so the concept of radical of making it radical is because you're intentionally putting that first. So in your engagements, you're you're wanting to pulse in engage with how the person's doing and how they're feeling, and understanding that and then moving to other things. Am I hearing that correctly?

08:35 - 09:25 | Erin:

That's it. Yeah. And it's, it's really, so part one of the book, I talk about self-love as the number one thing that has to happen in order to get to part two, which is selfless leadership. And that's where the empathy piece comes in. And understanding a human being and being able to lead from your highest self takes a lot of reflection. It takes a lot of courage. And if you can do that internally, you're going to be able to do that externally. So I have an activity called Empathy because every chapter of the book ends with a improv-based activity that people can use and take it either as a solo exercise or a group exercise that can showcase what I mean. Can I do this with you, Christopher? Would you be down?

09:25 - 09:30 | Christopher:

Yes, let's do it. I'm down. I'm so down. I'm so down. Experimental podcasting here.

09:31 - 09:47 | Erin:

Yes. Okay. So it's called, it's called empathy. It's super. It's very easy. Okay. So can you tell me a challenge in your life right now? Just, just tell me what's going on with you. Give me a two to three sentences about something that's bothering you.

09:47 - 10:33 | Christopher:

At work or impersonal, whatever you want. At work or impersonal. Well, it's, I think, actually, no, to be honest with you, what's challenging me right now is like, I've trans, I've become this solopreneur. I've, you know, I don't answer to corporate anymore. I have some projects that I'm working on. I love my work, but because I think I work alone most of the time, I don't know if I, I don't think I have as much fun as I do when I was working with other people. So one of the things that I've been trying to figure out is, you know, and I love these moments, like podcast interviews are things that I always look forward to because I get to interact. But when we're done, I'm going to be here in the house by myself. Kids are at school, wife's traveling for work. So I'm trying to figure out now, how do I, how do I get more fun out of this? That's something that I'm working on and thinking about.

10:33 - 13:51 | Erin:

Okay, love that. Thank you for being vulnerable. Kudos to you and yes. Okay, so here's what I'm doing as your partner. We're in a simulated activity right now. So as your partner, I am listening to you and I'm going to repeat back in the first person what you just said. Okay, so I am a solopreneur now. I don't answer to corporate anymore. And something that's been really challenging for me is that I don't necessarily have as much fun as I used to have when I was in the office with my corporate friends. And so now, you know, I'm doing this podcast. I'm going to get off and I'm going to be in the house alone because the kids are at school. My wife's traveling for work. And I just want to incorporate more fun into my life. And that's a challenge that I'm having right now. And I didn't say that probably word for word, but that was the gist of what you were saying, right? And so as a person, and I didn't ask you to do this, so it's interesting if you were to be in my seat what you might feel, but as I was saying that back in the first person, as you, I like saw your wife, not like on a plane, okay? I saw your kids being at school. I saw like, because I can see two sides of your space right now, just with the angles I can see over over our podcast platform here. And I like visualized like you getting off this show and being like, man, I miss people, you know, and that probably would not have happened had I not put myself in the first person with you. And so what that activity does, and you can do this with coworkers, you could do this with direct reports, you can do it with your partner, your spouse, whoever, is it turns the table so much so that when you repeat it back as if you are that person, you're really filtering it through their lens. And obviously, you're not filtering it through the years of emotions and, you know, baggage that comes with their life. But you're seeing them in that moment as they are. And so if you as a leader can meet whoever it is that you're chatting with, and let's say this is personal, you can meet your friend who you do this activity with right where they are. What happens is that person who was being listened to feels seen, heard, and valued. And what happens then is that you want to show up more. Like you want to, if I'm your boss and you're my direct report, you want to show up more because guess what? I understood how Christopher feels. He's lonely right now. He's missing the camaraderie of work. And so as a leader, I might say, okay, well, let's have a coworking space for you a couple of days a week. Or I might come up with some things that make you feel like I actually listen to where you're at in this moment. And what that does for you, hopefully, is allows you to want to show up more for me and for the team. And then productivity starts to rise and then you thrive, the organization thrives. It's not that simple. That's like pie in the sky idealistic dreams. But if we start here, we can go somewhere.

13:52 - 15:12 | Christopher:

This is the first time that I've done this specific exercise. And I have to say that when I heard you reading it back in the first person, the first sentence that came out, I was like, okay, this is a little awkward. But the more you said it, I felt incredibly understood and validated. And I didn't really see that coming. And I can see how this is a powerful exercise and so, so, so important in technology workplaces. People are remote now, which is a great thing. You get the benefit of being remote, which you know, I do enjoy, I enjoy that flexibility, but that can also create some level of isolation, loneliness, not feeling understood. And then the pace, even when you are in the office can create some level of isolation as well. And I see this tool, you know, having been a manager for, you know, 15, you know, 20 years of my career, is it starts creating connectivity because people are feeling understood by other people. And I feel like that is the strongest elixir that creates deep connective tissue in the team, and then allows the team to persevere and actually get to the point of where they can be high performing together.

15:12 - 16:27 | Erin:

Yeah, exactly. And that's the root of improv comedy. I don't know if you're familiar with yes and, but that is really what yes and means. It's yes, I hear you. And let's add something to this conversation. I'm not going to negate you. I'm going to say yes, I hear you. Thank you. and I'm gonna add something, and then you're gonna add something, because you've heard me. And together, we're building this project brick by brick by brick together. And when we're done, it's a collective house, or pillar, or wall, whatever it is, that was made in collaboration versus siloed. So it's really empathy to me is all of that and more, but really the fundamental root of improv comedy is empathy. And it is the most powerful fundamental in the way I lead my team. I have 22 facilitators. I have an internal team of five. I literally don't know how we would exist without this principle. And it's what we teach all day, every day. And so I wanted to share that. I felt like it was when I boiled it down to one word, it was empathy. And that's that's what it is.

16:28 - 19:13 | Christopher:

This is a very, it's a very powerful concept as you go through the book. And so that's exercise one is, is understanding and experiencing it. And I went through an inflection point in my career and I had this moment where I was a director and I had the, I was in it and technology companies. So my, the C level I reported to was the chief information officer, CIO. And he got me, he introduced me and got me enrolled inside of a formal networking group. And we would meet and we would listen to other chief information officers speak. And one time we had a very, a chief information officer at a very large, well-known company. who came to speak to us. And I was excited to be there, excited to learn from this gentleman. And as soon as he started speaking, he said, the theme was leadership. And he started off with this opening statement that said, 80% of my effort in leadership is spent on leading myself. And I immediately went to my, I am a INTJ. I immediately went to my judgmental self and said, This dude's crazy. Like I better just check out. I better just check out. That's what I literally was saying to myself. But I said, you know, the powers that be want me to be here for a reason. Let me listen. I'll listen to this guy. I can't get up and leave right now. So I took some notes and was listening to this guy. By the time he finished his talk, I was 180. I was like, this guy's a genius. Like, oh my goodness. Like if we manage ourselves and we honestly know for a fact that Maura's caught, than taught, that's an expression for us parents, but I think it also applies in leadership as well, that if I manage myself much more effectively, number one, I'm going to show up, as you talked about earlier, I'm going to show up in my best self and I'm going to be prepared for whatever's thrown at me. But it makes the effort, the 20% that then you're leading the others becomes so much more impactful. because you then become the real deal. You are the real leader that they aspire to be and not some burnout mountain climber that could fall off the side of a cliff somewhere because they're just keep trying to hard charge. Totally. And so what are some of the exercises, you know, or, or, you know, the process that you talk about in radical empathy of how do we learn to love ourselves and become self-aware? Because I think as I have trained quite a few young leaders myself, I find like that there's a gap there. It's hard for people to get around that. No, it's not. Management isn't bossing other people. It's learning to love yourself. It's like, wait, what? It's like, yeah. Yeah.

19:13 - 19:44 | Erin:

Yeah, oh my god, I love that. And there's a quote I love, and I did not say this. An author who was on my show named Simon Ong said this, and I'll never forget it. He said, leaders don't manage people, they manage energy. And I was like, boom, mic drop. I'm done because that's really it. And so the beginning of the book, I set this foundation that you have just enrolled in this class called Energy U. OK. And so when was your birthday, Christopher?

19:44 - 19:44 | Christopher:

August 30th.

19:45 - 24:21 | Erin:

okay i love that day so much because that was the day that energy you was founded and that is the day that you enrolled into this curriculum that you had no idea that you had started until today and then i have people look at their phones and say and pick what like any picture that they're in and you pull it up on their phone and then literally you can look at that picture and say that is energy that is energy you at work because That right there, you can remember how you felt, you can remember feelings, you can remember the vibe of that picture. And so what the whole first part of the book really talks about are exercises to get you rooted back into self-love. So I have five different ones and I'm racking my brain of the best one to share with you, but I'll do this one because I think if you know what your ideal day could be, then you have an idea of how to set yourself up for it. But there's an activity called Yes and Your AMs, which is all about setting up your morning routine, which I'm like a huge nerd. I could talk about this all day. There's an activity in there that really, it's called the ideal day. I'm gonna tell you about that. And then there's something called new choice. So when you start to spiral, you're able to stop yourself in those limiting beliefs and those scarcity statements and turn your mindset around because truly your thoughts affects your words and your words affects your actions. But just to give everybody a tangible right now to take home, when you think about your life, And this exercise is done in a variety of ways, but because I have a very punny last name, I call it the ideal day spelled like I-D-I-E-H-L, which is my last name, okay? Very lucky I got this, I married into this name, okay? So one of the thing I want people to think about is if you have no idea what a ideal day looks like, how can you measure success? How can you even… know if your standards are what you actually want. So let's define what that is. And so I use that as an acronym to break down the ideal day. So I starts with your I am statements. And I'm a huge affirmations person. So what are you affirming as you start your day? I am blank. It could be, I am worthy, I am an excellent speaker, I am an amazing solopreneur, whatever it is. The D is what are you gonna do first? And it can't be like, wake up and scroll your phone. It has to be giving to yourself in those first 30, 45 minutes. Maybe it's reading, maybe it's journaling, maybe it's exercise. Whatever gives to you first, what are you doing first? The I is your intake. So when I say intake, what are you digesting? Is it doom and gloom news? Or is it uplifting content that can add to your mind and grow your mind in a way that is different than when you're just putting fear into your life? Then the E is what is your ideal environment? Do you want to be working from home and yoga pants and bedroom slippers? Or do you want to be in an office with peers and wear a blazer? What feels right? And then you go to the H, which I think is the most important one, which is how do you want to feel? If you don't know how you want to feel, like you have no measurement for your day. And I always ask myself these three questions within this. What do I want to experience? What do I want to feel? And what do I want to receive? So, but you can just use, how do I wanna feel? A big one for me right now is flow. I wanna flow through my day. Okay, and then the L, the very last one is the last thing. What is the last thing that your eyes see? before you hit the pillow? Is it I'm scrolling social media? Is it I'm, which I don't recommend, is it I'm going to get myself this feel good book? Is it I'm kissing my wife goodnight? Like, what is the last thing that you're doing? And how does that end your day? So That acronym sort of spells out all the little questions and nuances within the book. But for me, that's giving to yourself, having an idea of what it is that could give more love and joy and abundance to you is the first step. And then once you have the idea, you can take action to make it work.

24:21 - 25:17 | Christopher:

There is such a gap. There is such a gap in what we learn in school, in university, and then we get into the workplace that we're focused on production. We're focused on how we can perform for others in this environment. but there's such a lack of getting to know and understand ourselves. And I have been through very similar exercises to this and I love this stuff. And I have come to understand over the last 10 years or so that writing introspection is a superpower. It is a superpower because going through that exercise, which number one, you nailed the framework. I did laugh at the beginning because I was wondering like, what was your maiden name? It wouldn't work. It wouldn't work. It was Holbrook. Holbrook, yeah. My Holbrook day. It's like, oh man.

25:17 - 25:26 | Erin:

The Holbrook day, boo. Yeah. I named my dog Big. I've got all kinds of puns. I could go on the deal tangent, but keep going. Sorry.

25:26 - 26:41 | Christopher:

Yeah, no, but I think you put together a very concise framework and I want to encourage people you know, that are listening in on this, that that's such a simple exercise to do. And if you set aside an hour and you put that down on paper, that would be transformative. And the difference between the people that sit down and actually do that exercise and don't, I would argue is is exponential in the fact that you will, you will understand yourself, you will start giving yourself a why in a direction that is so powerful. And yet having this conversation, you know, and understanding more about the book, this is some of the radical stuff that's in the empathy, like understanding the concept of empathy is important. But understanding this portion of how do you really get to know and love yourself and understand what is your ideal day look like? I think that that could be transformative. This is, this is really cool stuff. It sounds like I mean, and this is like chapter two of the book. So then I can't even imagine like you read the rest and then you're, you're floating in the clouds. What's what is the rest of the book hold for us here?

26:41 - 29:35 | Erin:

So part one is all types of exercises like this that are really introspective, that help you think about what you need, what you want, how you can implement them. And then part two is all about selfless leadership. So I have that activity Empathy in there. It's one of my favorites. There's a few more activities in there that help you understand your own energy level, how to meet people where they're at. But when you really give to yourself first, you have more energy to give. So the second part of the book is all about, okay, how am I taking what I've learned and this love that I've given and give it to others? When you can do that, part three is all about a magnetic culture. Because when you have leaders that are selflessly giving, because they are so filled with love of themselves, and you radiate that in everyone that you talk to, everything that you do, every project that you're managing, you start to retain a talent, but you start to attract talent. And it doesn't have to be talent. It could be you start to attract clients, you start to attract partners, you start to attract followers, community, whatever it might be, that not only are magnetized to your energy, but they see the energy in action, and that's what the magnetic pull is towards. You're not just talking the talk, you're walking the walk. And that, to me, in that part three, we really talk about core values and understanding not only your core values as an individual, but of your organization, bringing people, yes, anding your core values, allowing your team to be a part of that conversation, hiring, and then also measuring success and performance against core values. And then lastly, it's about protecting your own vibes, which I call a very, if you have high vibes, you're a very important believer in energetic significance, lots of acronyms here. But basically, Protecting yourself from the people who may want to diminish what you've worked so hard to work on. And I come with a lot of energy. Look, I'm like this pretty much 24-7, or I'm a face plant on the couch when I've burned the candle, which I talk about in the book. But there are people that your vibes might trigger something in them. Yes. That's not your fault. If you work on yourself and do the work, and you're processing and being real and vulnerable and teaching what you've learned, and somebody is triggered by that, you gotta just say, look, that's not my problem, right? And you have to reward yourself for the work and move on. And I've had to do that several times, even in this book release process, do that.

29:35 - 30:46 | Christopher:

Yeah, I bet. I bet. That's, yeah, that's a real important one. I know myself because I am high energy. I'm excited. And then I also have, I mean, I think it is interesting is that I have this direct intensity, right? I, you know, want things to go really well. I'm also, you know, a strategic thinker. So I'm always trying to think of angles. And I know for myself, I understand that that is strong coffee to some people and I need to, I don't know what your thoughts are, but I definitely found that there were points in corporate where I just had to manage that myself a little because I know myself because many people don't like strong black coffee. I drink strong black coffee every morning and I don't know whether that's why I energized it and I started that when I was 17 or 16. Thanks, dad. I know you're listening. But I think it is important though that we do understand who we surround ourselves with and who is adding to that energy, who's taking from it. We do have to manage that so, so carefully.

30:47 - 32:30 | Erin:

Yeah. And sometimes, like, you can't choose your family. You know, you can't choose your co-workers. You can't choose people that will be in your life. But I always think that relationships are assignments. And so what is the lesson? Where can we find the lesson? How can I protect myself in a way that I can still be empathetic and kind to this human, but not allow myself to be burdened by their energy that is not mine. And so let me say this, like, as an empath, truly, I am an empath. I find myself taking the energy of people a lot of times that in your facility, you know, your podcast host, I'm a facilitator, and I'm also a keynote speaker. When I'm facilitating, I'm usually in rooms to like 50 some, maybe up to a hundred people, but it's like real intense work. We're using improv to have meaningful conversation. There is a lot of energy in that room. And I am managing that. I am setting the tone. But what I find sometimes is I can go on trips and most of the time I'm traveling all over the place. I will get back to my hotel room and I am just completely zapped, and it's because I've given everything in my body, but then I've also taken on a lot of energy. And I actually work with a lot of energy healers. I'm kind of woo woo in that way. But one of my biggest takeaways is now after I do an event where I feel like I've given a lot, but also maybe taken on too much energy that's not mine, I just take a shower. And literally, it's like this like cleansing.

32:30 - 32:30 | Christopher:

Yeah.

32:31 - 32:51 | Erin:

of getting my own energy back, releasing what is not mine, and allowing myself to be refilled. Because that can also happen as a leader, not just a facilitator. That can happen in many professions. And it's important to witness that and notice when it happens.

32:52 - 33:51 | Christopher:

It is, because I think when you're a leader in technology, where there's a lower margin for error, you know, we're in these hyper growth environments, and we're constantly under a microscope, that understanding what energy we're giving and, you know, in monitoring and managing how much we're giving away throttling that appropriately for ourselves. And then yes, what is some of this negative stuff that we're taking on is so important, because we have to ensure I think this goes back to your, you know, radical empathy, the self love is taking care of ourselves is, is Going back to you're right what we are How much we're expending and then what what are the things that we are? ingesting because we can be unintentionally doing that time and having a process to say Not mine. I'm gonna wash this get rid of this and move forward in my own space is very very important

33:51 - 36:29 | Erin:

Totally. And you can find your… And again, as somebody who is an empath, I could go on a trip with a coworker and maybe they're going through a tough time. And if I'm with that person long enough, it feels like my problem. Right. It really does. It's happened a lot of times. And so I really have to be cognizant of setting that down and come in. This is what, you know, and I say this in the book, like if you find yourself slipping and your cup isn't full, come back to part one a million times. Do these activities, refuel yourself, give to yourself, take a, I call it, there is something that I want to share. It's called an LSD day and it's not drugs, Christopher, okay? I'm not talking about drugs. It is called a light saver day. And this is I will share this fun fact. So my team is now at a four day work week, which I can talk about in a minute. Yeah. Yes. I before this implemented LSD days. And it was once a month, you have to take a day off to give to yourself. So, you know, the saying, burning the candle, literally, that is what I would do to myself until like I was like the lowest, almost like the wick was down. Right. So before your candle dwindles and you're down to the wick, let's prevent that from happening and save your light. So it's a day where it's just giving to you. It's not going to take care of somebody else or taking the kids somewhere. It's your day. So if you want to go thrift store shopping, go through the shelves at HomeGoods, if you want to massage, like whatever it is, or you just want to lay in bed and read a book, you do that once a month because that will give you so much more than you could ever ask for, doing and doing and doing. Like more is actually, or less is actually more. in that case. And then the four-day work week happened kind of based off of like noticing that Fridays, and I have a small internal team, so we're three full-time W-2s, four part-timers. But so the W-2s just do this, and everybody else is kind of contract on their own hours anyway, but we notice Fridays, we're no meeting Fridays anyway. And Fridays, I was going to get an appointment done or something, and I was catching up on work. And so I finally decided, let's just have this day, there's no meetings. We check our emails at 11am, 4pm, our respective time zones, respond to what is necessary. But you can respond to what is necessary from a lounge chair on the beach.

36:29 - 36:30 | Christopher:

Yeah.

36:30 - 36:43 | Erin:

And that's where we've been for the past almost, well, it's been a quarter, we did it for Q4 and almost all of Q1 in 2024, and it's been the best decision.

36:43 - 36:44 | Christopher:

That's amazing.

36:44 - 36:44 | Erin:

We've ever done.

36:45 - 37:37 | Christopher:

Well, we've talked a lot about radical empathy. I want to take a pause right here. We're going to take a quick break and then I want to come back and I want to lean into the improv side and really understand what are some tricks and things that we can use in our everyday lives. Improv is fun. Improv is amazing. I want to take advantage while you're here. Aaron Deal. We'll be right back. All right, welcome back TechCruise and Money Talk. We've got Erin Deal here. She is a facilitator of improv through her company Improve It, where she goes into corporate settings and she does a lot of engagement with tech leaders, giving them improvisational tools to help them in work, in life, in home. And I wanted to take this advantage and say, what are those and how can you help us?

37:39 - 40:55 | Erin:

Yeah, I love that. So, and I mentioned this to you before, we work with a variety of industries, but our biggest industry does tend to be tech. And how we decide what is right for a client or a specific organization is we'll talk to them on a discovery call. We're going to get super quick, like it's almost like therapy, okay? Because we're asking you hard questions about your team, your challenges, what your ideal scenario would look like for your team. It's a 30-minute deep dive into the dynamics of what makes your team your team. And then from that, we have 10 different what we call power skill training sessions. They're either virtual or in person, two hours in person, an hour and a half virtually. We pick one of those power skills and those range from things like team building to an effective communication, leadership, presentation skills, networking. And so we decide from that call, what is the best use of our time with you? What can we change in those two hours? And then We have another call with you to get super specific on your team dynamics. We get very specific on how you want us to bring in your team's dynamics to this conversation. We have a pre-work video that uses our team of hilarious improvisers that shows you how not to do the specific thing we're gonna train you on. And then we ask the participants questions before we come in. After we do the pre-work, You get a laugh break with our team, which is virtual. It is basically short form improv over Zoom. And we started this in the pandemic. It has been such a joy to do. But so you actually get to experience improv. You get to sit back and laugh and watch our team do it. But you're interacting with us through the chat box. And then we come in either virtually or in person, do the live session. And then every single course has an e-learning course built in conjunction with it that is a three-week follow-up. For three days a week, we send you an email with a worksheet, PDF, but it's specific to that power skill. So 10 different skills, 10 different videos, 10 different live sessions, 10 different e-learning courses. We have just found so much success in helping teams not only start conversations, but we don't measure the ROI because power skills are really hard to define. And we know in two hours, we're not going to change your culture overnight, but we're giving you the tools to start that conversation. We measure the ROO, which is the return on your objective. And we get really clear on what that is. And we measure that not only through your feedback, the participants' feedback. And we just, you, if you're the client, we ask you to be in the room so you can experience it. Because it's so hard to describe because it's such an experiential way to learn that the feeling can't be described. You have to feel it in the room itself. It really changes people.

40:55 - 40:58 | Christopher:

Can you give us an example of what a power skill would be?

40:58 - 41:02 | Erin:

Yeah. So these are, I'm going to name them all. You ready?

41:02 - 41:02 | Christopher:

Here we go.

41:02 - 41:20 | Erin:

Let's go. Okay. Team building, effective communication, leadership, presentation skills, networking, thinking quickly on your feet, taking initiative and creative risks, intern, so early career, sales, and then vision setting.

41:20 - 41:41 | Christopher:

Okay, wow. And you do this in so help me understand how this like, because you talk about these are skills that help at the work in home, like what, what is something that you could bring to life? So that we can understand like, how does this? How does this really work? So I hear it. But how does it? Yeah, yeah.

41:42 - 43:03 | Erin:

How do you make it work? So let's say you're a leader of a team that is remote and everybody is having to communicate via Slack channels or, you know, Zoom meetings and communication is really stifled, right? And you're like, I just want to have a conversation with my team because somebody, some people show up on camera. Some people don't. Some people's slack is really, you know, their nonverbal skills aren't really there. So it's just that right there would say to me, okay, your team needs effective communication. And every workshop has an overarching thesis statement to it. That one specifically is what you say and what you don't say affects how others listen and respond. And we take each individual sort of sub part of that and we break it down. So it's like what others say. We talk about tonality and verbal and written communication, nonverbal, and especially how you show up on Zoom or over your Slack channels. Listening is huge and we do activities that help people understand their negative listening patterns. how to stop themselves from over-correcting and over-speaking over people. And then we use that idea of yes and to help people have effective responses where people feel seen, heard, and valued. And that's one workshop. And there's nine other things with nine different fundamentals and activities.

43:04 - 43:51 | Christopher:

Well, just I mean, just that one example, I think, is so real in today's environment, right? Communication is is fragmented. It's not there. There was in office culture created. I think there was a baseline that people understood it had been around for, you know, you know, hundreds of years, if not thousands of years of, you know, people work together and they communicate. Now we have all these different tools and the way we communicate is so can be fragmented. And am I to understand that you're the facilitators are then using improv themselves to show, you know, positive results, negative results, and in really bringing it to life and then creating exercises so that people can participate themselves and understand what that looks and feels like?

43:51 - 45:20 | Erin:

Yeah, so you're absolutely right. We are not just standing in front of you talking. You are the workshop. You are doing the activities. So it is nonstop for two hours. You're on your feet almost every single minute for probably 10 minutes of the time. You're not standing. There's no phone in your hand. The only technology is the PowerPoint that's like has three or four words on it guiding us this entire time. it's very human to human and it's really what I love about it is people have to turn off the distractions and the notifications and they have to be fully present and when you're doing that that's when the magic happens and then what happens in those moments in play is people take off those hypothetical masks that we all I say we all wore masks to work before 2020. We were wearing these hypothetical masks. And I actually think what was interesting in 2020 is when people had to actually take it off, and we saw what's behind them in their homes, and we saw the pictures on the wall, and we saw the dogs barking, and the babies coming in camera, and people looked more human than ever. And that's what happens when we use improv, is we humanize work. And you can have an intern and a CEO in the same room, but for those two hours, they're on the same playing field. And even though we know the titles are different, we're asking you to do something completely different in your day to day. And the magic happens in that play. Wow.

45:22 - 45:54 | Christopher:

The magic happens in the play. And that's, I mean, that in and of itself is such a powerful skill to understand is being able to work hard, but also having the play while you're at work and play is not just, okay, everybody's like at the bar getting hammered. Like I think that was an old school way of the work hard, play hard, but play is actually enjoying the people that you're with, enjoying the time that you have together and making it memorable in the midst of facing challenges together.

45:54 - 47:04 | Erin:

Yes. Yes. And, you know, so this is a fun fact. One of our biggest claims to fame is that we've taught over 36,000 people to chicken dance. Mm hmm. Right. And so we use we used to have a chicken hat now because of covid and germs. We just every time you hear the word improv in our workshops, you chicken dance like you would see at a wedding. So that like breaks down barriers right away. And whoever's the most enthusiastic and committed chicken dancer at the end becomes the improv chicken champion. And they get this big surprise at the end and lots of celebration. We have had people create T-shirts, create trophies, make certificates, hang the pictures from the Chicken Championship in their wall. Like, it's a huge thing because people, the chicken symbolizes, like, they have gotten outside of their comfort zone. They're not being chicken. They're celebrating differences in life and bringing joy to work. And to me, that's probably one of the coolest things about what we do is just witnessing that.

47:04 - 47:27 | Christopher:

That's so cool. Erin, I could continue to have this conversation forever, but I know that both you and I have other obligations, things we need to get to. So as we're winding down, we always have called the fire round, but we just ask some quick questions so that you can help people have some understanding of who you are and how you manage things throughout your day. So how do you keep learning?

47:29 - 47:43 | Erin:

Oh my God. Well, I read and I've listened to podcasts. And I think for me, I just am always seeking new courses and ways of bettering myself. It's just constantly reading and listening.

47:43 - 47:47 | Christopher:

What is some of the worst career advice you've ever received?

47:49 - 48:19 | Erin:

I had one boss tell me that if I didn't show up to a happy hour, it was a career-limiting move. And I will never forget that. I'm sorry. I was training for a marathon, and she told me not to show up. If I didn't show up, it was a career-limiting move. So for me, listening to bad advice when I know the person giving it is not somebody I want to be or aspire to be was… was the worst advice and I didn't take it. I didn't go.

48:19 - 48:21 | Christopher:

What do you do to recharge?

48:21 - 48:36 | Erin:

I meditate and I love to run. I love running. It just makes me zone out and get in a different world or workout. I do both every morning. That's my morning routine. I meditate and I exercise for 30 minutes.

48:36 - 48:39 | Christopher:

What soft skill has helped your career the most?

48:39 - 48:51 | Erin:

Listening. A thousand percent. I was a horrible listener until I did improv. And then it helped me really focus on the person and not plan ahead.

48:51 - 48:57 | Christopher:

Wow. That's really cool. I haven't thought about that. What is the best investment of time that you've ever made?

48:57 - 49:21 | Erin:

Wow, this is a hard one. Oh, I know. I know it. You got it. I've got it. Just gonna share it. I was an infertility warrior for a really long time, and then I invested time and money into IVF. And I have, after three and a half years, a four and a half healthy baby boy. So that's my best investment.

49:21 - 49:28 | Christopher:

That's awesome. So let's talk about your book. Where can people find your book, Radical Empathy?

49:29 - 50:06 | Erin:

Yes, you can find it anywhere books are sold, Amazon, Barnes and Noble, Target, all the places. And I will say a fun fact, we released it on February 20th. We hit number one in business health and stress, and then it sold out on Amazon and it just got restocked. So go now, go now, the time is now. But yeah, and if you get the book, please, I hope that it brings you joy, it brings you light, and you pass that on to somebody else. That's really what I want the book to do, is to add the word love to the workplace.

50:06 - 50:09 | Christopher:

Where can people find out more about you? What you got cooking?

50:09 - 50:18 | Erin:

Yeah, you can go, everything's on my website, which is itsarendeal.com, and that's D-I-E-H-L, itsarendeal.com.

50:20 - 50:29 | Christopher:

And we'll make sure and put that in the show notes. Erin, thank you so much for taking the time out of your busy schedule to join us today. It has been an absolute pleasure. Thank you.

50:29 - 50:29 | Erin:

Thank you.