082: Building Expertise to Leverage Equity Compensation in Tech

00:00 - 41:48 | Christopher Nelson: Are you trading your time and talent for equity today and you're not thinking about the value of your skills? Are you going into interviews and not understanding how to articulate your value? Because if you're answering yes to both questions, then I'm here to tell you that there's a better way and that's exactly what we're gonna be covering in this episode. This is a strategy that has been proven that I'm gonna bring you evidence today and case studies, real life, and show you how this works. Let me tell you my story of understanding, building skills, and then moving them to expertise, and how that translated into then trading that expertise at three different companies that went through IPO. Expertise starts with skills. And when you realize that tech companies aren't paying for your skills, you have skills, but that's not what they're paying for. What they're paying for is they're paying for your results. They want to know that the skills that you have can be used to contribute to their key projects and deliver results that move them towards their goals. I am going to lay out for you some case studies so that you can understand from the top of the pyramid down to people at your particular level. How do you go about building expertise? I want to make sure that you have case studies. You have real life examples to see how this works. What are two of the biggest blind spots that people who are tech professionals who are looking to build expertise fall into and how can you avoid that? Welcome to Tech Equity and Money Talk. I'm your host, Christopher Nelson. And today we are going to unlock one of the most underrated overlooked areas that is going to allow you to turn your career into a wealth building machine. I'm talking about your expertise. I'm talking about the skills that you have today. When you turn those into expertise, that is going to give you leverage. And that is going to give you the ability to trade for incredibly valuable sets of equity compensation. This isn't just another conversation. This isn't just, you know, going into some details about RSUs or stock options or vesting. This is a strategy that has been proven that I'm going to bring you evidence today and case studies, real life, and show you how this works. So I want to start off with a powerful insight from Navel Ravikant, who is a legendary Silicon Valley investor. And he says, build a unique and irreplaceable skill set. that can't be automated or outsourced, and you will unlock doors to opportunity and freedom. What he is telling you right here is true. I'm evidence that I was able to leverage my skills, trade it for valuable equity, not once, but I did it three times at companies that went through IPO and were able to get financial freedom. So if I can do it, you can do it too. Now, the reality is, when you hear this, building your skills to expertise, this can sound incredibly overwhelming. You may be sitting there thinking, okay, now I have to become an expert at everything I do. No, that's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is, it is much more laser focused than that. And when I get into the examples, this is gonna become real for you today. But I do need to ask you some questions. I need you to be thinking to yourself, Are you trading your time and talent for equity today and you're not thinking about the value of your skills? Are you going into interviews and not understanding how to articulate your value? Because if you're answering yes to both questions, then I'm here to tell you that there's a better way and that's exactly what we're gonna be covering in this episode. Today, I'm going to lay out for you my personal journey. where there's a lot of key lessons learned that I can tease out for you because I know that I've been, you know, writing about those, maybe obsessing a little bit, but it's going to show you that it's not just hard work, but it's strategy and technique that can allow you to trade for very valuable equity. I want to break down for you what expertise really means in this world of tech companies, tech equity compensation that we're really talking about here. I also want to give you a handful of real world case studies, one that I'm going to dive deep into here, but I'm also going to refer you to some other podcast episodes that I've recorded so that you can go and play back the tape and you can listen to other people that have really done this and understand that as well. At the end, at the end of today's episode, and you have to stick around for this, I'm going to call out the two biggest blind spots that many tech professionals have and actually how to avoid those. So you're going to be able to walk away from this episode with a clear path of how you leverage your skills, turn them to expertise and talk about them in a way that you can get more leverage for valuable equity. How does that sound? Before we get started though, I am gonna need your help. I'm on a mission. I am on a mission here at Tech Equity and Money Talk to help technology professionals feel incredibly comfortable and to be well-equipped when they're making their biggest decisions around equity compensation and managing the money that comes with it. The reality is there's not a lot of educational channels like this that are trying to bring the inside story of what people have been doing for years, turning that into actionable frameworks, strategies, and tactics, and giving it to you. But we're doing that here. So what I'm asking you to do is number one, if you like this video, subscribe. Number two, if you're listening on a podcast somewhere, please follow our podcast wherever you're listening. And then I also ask that you engage, like if you're here on YouTube, ask us some questions, interact with this content, because that allows more people to hear about this. And it also helps us understand what questions that you have that we could help with. And then just continuing to build the community. Ultimately, we are trying to build a community of like-minded people that want to help others grow their career, build wealth and live the lives that they truly deserve. And so join us. So let me tell you my story of understanding, building skills, and then moving them to expertise and how that translated into then trading that expertise at three different companies that went through IPO. So I started my career at Accenture as a technology consultant, and I was learning to implement CRM systems. And at that point in time, in the early two thousands, it was PeopleSoft. I had an opportunity and I didn't realize the value at the time, but in 2004, I joined a small practice that started taking salesforce.com to the enterprise. Now today you hear this salesforce.com, it's a, it's a household name. It's one of the largest CRMs now that is implemented across the globe. But at that point in time, in 2004, it was a small to medium business product that really wanted to make its way into the enterprise. So I took a chance. And I didn't, I didn't realize at the time that I was leaning into some technology that was going to take off. And part of that was, I think, where preparation, you know, meets opportunity, I was prepared and was already working in that space. And I took an opportunity, took a risk. And then I started building skills. What happened to me, I think to many people, like that happens to many people in technology is I built my skills and I was at this truly high level of expertise. I was one of the only technical architects on the planet, but when I was working, I was in this burnt out state. And so when I made that first decision to trade my time and talent for equity, two things happened. Number one is, I ended up making a decision based on my heart. I didn't choose them in my head. I chose my first startup company based on, oh, I really liked the founder's vision and his idea, but I didn't do a lot of due diligence. And if you've heard my story before, you'll know that. But what's relevant to this conversation is I did not realize at that point the true value of my expertise. And so I traded it to a company that really had no value in return. And if you listened to my last episode, 81, what you understand is that trading time and talent for equity, like trading for equity compensation, is a value exchange. So if you understand, if I understand my value, I can trade it for something that's of equal or greater value. I didn't do that. And it's important that you understand that because when I got to the end of. you know, working for this particular company for a year. And after I worked there for a year, it was obvious to me that the product wasn't going to launch, that investors and customers were losing faith. And ultimately, you know, this, this big payday that I dreamed of was not there. And it was at this point that I got into a bad situation because again, not knowing the value of the skills that I had built, I didn't see any opportunities in front of me. Now, I was fortunate that I was still in touch with a mentor. I reached out to that mentor. And when I talked to him and told him the challenges I was having at the current company, and I was looking for new opportunities, within moments, he read back to me and said, Oh my goodness, here you are. This is. You know, 2009, when we were having this conversation, you have all of this, the skills and experience in this space. That's so incredibly valuable. Here's your value in the marketplace. Here's how much, you know, salary you could garner at five or six other opportunities. And in fact, I have an opportunity for you right now. I mean, that's how fast it turned around. And it was really, I was struggling with understanding my value and knowing the value of my skills and expertise and what I could deliver to all of a sudden knowing it. All of a sudden, I went emotionally from a downside to an upside, and from a bad work situation to a better work situation. So this is where it's so important when you understand the value of your expertise and you understand the opportunities in the market. Not only does it have, does it create fiscal opportunities for you to make more money, but it's also better for you emotionally in your health to understand here's my value in the marketplace. But my story doesn't end there. As I went back to work for Accenture and consulting, I really wanted to trade my time and talent for equity. So as you know, I had deep skills when it came to salesforce.com and other technologies that I knew startup companies really wanted. But here's where expertise really comes into play and I want you to lean in and I want you to listen. I also had a level of skill. in something called Sarbanes-Oxley compliance, SOX compliance. SOX compliance was critical for companies that are going through IPO events, initial public offerings. I'd had some of this experience, you know, in the early two thousands working for larger companies, implementing Sarbanes-Oxley. All of a sudden I took my experience that I had with salesforce.com and I could also go into these companies that were 12 to 24 months from an IPO. And I could tell them. I understand Sarbanes-Oxley and I can be the easy button for that. My value shot through the roof. And this wasn't me understanding something like Python coding or data or engineering. It was a specialization that has a pretty tight box around it, but it was being conversant in that, understanding how to execute that, and also having other experts in the industry that I could get more knowledge from because I'd done that before and knew how to talk about that. That was something that set my career up for success when trading for equity because I had this valuable nuanced skill that I could walk into interviews. I could combine that with my experience in the salesforce.com arena and say, let me run your business applications. Let me actually then make Sarbanes-Oxley, this big headache for many people. Let me make that an easy button for you. And that was what allowed me to then position my career so that all of a sudden the opportunities that were coming for me towards me were companies that were 12 to 24 months from an IPO. And that was really where I wanted my risk level to be. I wanted to trade for equity that I knew was going to go through an IPO. And when I did that, I worked for three out of four companies that went through an IPO. And all of that was due to that really sort of small sliver of expertise that I was able to combine with my broader skillset and trade that for equity. So this is where, you know, to distill that out for you is when I became aware of number one, my skillset and its value in the market. Not only did that give me, you know, a positive mindset, but it also allowed me to see opportunities that were out there that I could participate in. Number two is when I understood what my customer meant, right? When you think about it, what, what the people that I wanted to work for, when I realized they had this problem that they needed to solve and I had the skillset and it wasn't huge, it wasn't wide, but it was very niche and I could develop expertise in that and become known for that. All of a sudden that opened up the key opportunities that were going to allow me to unlock wealth. This is really the picture that I'm trying to paint for you. If you can understand and know your skill set, you can understand what your prospective employers want and figure out a way to develop expertise and be known for that. That's going to allow you to unlock wealth moving forward because you'll be able to trade for equity at valuable companies. This is a pivotal moment for me. It changed my concept to equity compensation because I was no longer just trying to get a job with a little bit of equity, but I was really then applying some of the things I've been teaching you, which is you think like an investor with your time and talent. And then you remember that I'm the asset. I am the rare and valuable asset that when I'm able to then match that with what a company needs, then I can trade that for very valuable equity going forward. So now it's time to break it down. What is expertise? Well, expertise starts with skills. Right. And when you and when you realize that tech companies aren't paying for your skills. You have skills, but that's not what they're paying for. What they're paying for is they're paying for your results. They want to know that the skills that you have can be used to contribute to their key projects and deliver results that move them towards their goals. So you think about that. Technology companies are paying you for your results and what you can deliver. This is why you have to move now in being able to articulate your skills in the results that they deliver. You need to think about how you can change your mindset and not talk about what you have, but what you can do for those particular companies. Because what expertise is expertise are skills that you can build a brand. Or you can build a business around. And so let me, let me make this real for you. When I was telling my story and I was telling you how I built these skills around socks audit and being able to run business applications for a company, that was the little micro brand that I built if I was. the IT guy that could come in and own business systems and take care of SOX audit. That was my branding that I went to recruiters with. That was my branding that I went to other companies with that I actually spoke about within other practitioners of business applications and IT professionals and chief information officers. That was my brand. So I built a brand around it that then I could leverage. Other people, you know, have gone on and they've taken what they've done, and I'll give you this when I go over the case studies here in a minute, they've gone and they built such a specialization in something, they've gone and built businesses around it, whether those are consulting businesses, or whether that's IP that they've turned into software, and sometimes both. But that's essentially what expertise is. And when you think about technology companies, they are willing to pay a premium. They're willing to pay big dollars in salary bonus and equity compensation to hire and retain the best talent. Why is that? It's because they grow at incredible rates. They need people that can do incredible things. They need not just highly skilled people, they want experts. And when you're able to show that you have expertise at a certain level, then you're going to be able to trade that for a premium level of equity. And not just a premium level of equity, you'll be able to do it at some of the best and most valuable companies around. This is how this concept of building skills to expertise works at a granular level. Your skills are not wanted. It's your results. So you need to then be able to translate your skills to results. You build your skills to expertise that you can build a brand so that people know you for that. And you can build a business around it. You then. In negotiations, you'd use that as leverage to trade for equity, large quantities of equity in very valuable companies. This is. The true component of moving from equity to exit is when you understand foundationally equity compensation is a trading of time and talent for tech equity. And then you're able to create yourself to be a very valuable asset because you don't just have skills, you deliver results and you're an expert in that. You can then trade that for a premium. So once you are able to understand those foundational basics, then you can focus on building your skills to expertise, to be able to ultimately trade for the largest amount of equity. Don't wait until somebody else takes your equity opportunity. It's time for you to be able to articulate your skills as results today, and to be building expertise. And I am going to show you how to do that right now. I am going to lay out for you some case studies so that you can understand from the top of the pyramid down to people at your particular level. How do you go about building expertise today? I want to make sure that you have case studies. You have real life examples to see how this works. So I want to start with by pointing you to some other podcasts that I've recorded that you can go in and you can, you know, whether you want to read the show notes or whether you want to listen to the podcast again, it is really important that when you're on this journey that you understand how other people are doing this and some of the techniques that they use so that you can find your own way. So. If you go to episode seven that I recorded, I recorded with a woman, a good friend of mine named Randy Miller. Randy Miller built expertise in procurement and you may be saying to yourself, procurement, wait a second, like that's not engineering. That's not artificial intelligence. It's a true old school business function. And the answer is yes, she built skills in procurement for technology companies, and she has gone on to trade that for equity in companies like Splunk, in companies like Zendesk, in companies like Qualtrics, and now also at GitLab. She has built a phenomenal career that has built considerable wealth. And this is because she chose to become an expert and build a brand around procurement. One of the ways that she went and built a brand is that she started a meetup in Silicon Valley of other people that were procurement experts for other software companies. This is something that nobody had done, but then she became known as the expert as, as somebody who owned this brand because of the fact that she had built this network. And she's, I'm telling you, she lights out. She is an expert in her field. I've done some negotiations with her, and this is a great example of how somebody who's got non technical skills, just core business skills can build expertise in technology companies and trade it for equity. If you go to episode nine, Darren Murph, what Darren did is, it was very interesting, is that he leveraged skills of remote work, turned it to expertise of understanding how remote organizations worked, so that when companies like GitLab were starting to be remote first, he became head of organizational design and remote work. It's also in addition, and this goes back to what novel Ravikant was saying, is that when you build these deep skills, you'll have opportunities and freedom. Darren has been working remotely for the last 25 years. because he started building roles and expertise in remote work. He became the expert he created in opportunities to create roles as companies were evolving and changing the whole time he was creating lifestyle design and freedom for himself. Go check that out. That's episode nine. It was a great conversation and a very listened to episode. In episode 36, I spent time with a good friend of mine, Bart Finnelli, who built expertise in how to sell software in value-driven software selling. And he built this expertise that not only did he trade for equity at companies like Splunk, and BAE systems, but he then went on to found a company based on all of this IP that he'd built. And so he's now building software and launching a company around this. This is expertise traded for equity now being used to build equity in something of his own. This is how powerful this concept is that you can also do as well. If you go to episode 75, uh, this is where I interviewed a good friend of mine, David Banks. He has been through three IPOs as well. Interwoven VMware, and then Splunk. And he realized that his skill was being able to go and open up new sales territories for software companies. And he actually specialized in areas that he knew very well, sort of the Southeast and Texas and places where he lived. And then he figured out a way to trade that at companies that he knew had the DNA that they were going to be phenomenal value creation companies that were going to build his personal wealth. Now, he's financially independent, and there's also another episode, 76, where he talks about how he manages his wealth. This is how real this is. This is how powerful this concept is, is that when you focus on building your skills to expertise and you understand what that expertise is and really how to get ahead of your peers and how to talk about that in ways of results, that can build considerable wealth. And so I want to walk you through a case study now. of somebody who is at the top of the pyramid, somebody who has done this to a phenomenal level, and that gentleman is named Frank Slootman. I don't know Frank personally. I know people that have worked for him. I've read his book. Frank is a CEO, and he's a CEO that he now has a net worth of $3.7 billion, which is more than Tim Cook of Apple, who's at $2 billion, And Satya Nadella is not a billionaire at this point. So the CEO of Microsoft, those are both guys who traded time and talent for equity. Tim Cook, Satya are not founders, they're traders. But what Frank did is he created expertise in taking companies public and creating a hyper growth environment, getting people focused, turning companies around and taking them through IPO and going through hyper growth. He did Data Domain in 2003 and 2009, went through a successful IPO, and then it was acquired by EMC for $2.4 billion in 2009. He then went on to be the CEO of ServiceNow from 2011 to 2017. He grew the company's revenue from $93 million in 2011 to $1.4 billion, $1.4 billion in revenue annually in 2016. That's five years. That's an incredible feat. And he led the company through an IPO and increased the company's valuation to $14 billion. You'd think, okay, that was it. Like that's a phenomenal career. No, he then went on to Snowflake. He was there from 2019 to 2024. He led it through the largest IPO in history. In 2020, the heart of 2020, Snowflake goes through the biggest IPO in history, focused on leveraging AI and optimizing the cloud data platform. And all of this is because. He built this skill as a CEO of being the guy whose phone rings when they have these dynamic companies that they know are very, very high value. They want to get them on the right track. They want to go through an IPO. He built these skills around operational excellence. his strategic vision of being able to see the field, rapid decision-making, and building more than anything, he knows how to build and knows how to build a high-performance culture. It's important that we look like you may be saying to yourself, well, wait, Christopher, it's hard for me to relate to that. I get it like that. That is a whole different level of operations. That's a whole different level of execution. However, you want to take the lessons. The lessons are the framework. He took this leadership skill that he had and he honed it into expertise. And then he traded it at very valuable companies. And arguably he built that brand. He built that brand. Everybody knows and everybody knows this guy's on the bench right now. Is he going to get called up again or is he in permanent retirement? We don't know. But we know that he has this very valuable skill set and he has this brand that if you have a company that wants to go through IPO. You're going to call Frank Slootman. So case studies are important. Case studies are the things that bring to life these concepts that I'm presenting to you, because it's so important that you understand that this is not just some philosophy that somebody is touting. This is something that's worked for everybody in these case studies. And then it worked for me as well. And this can work for you as well. This can work for you. And so I want to transition now. I want to talk to you about what are two of the biggest blind spots that people who are tech professionals who are looking to build expertise fall into and how can you avoid them? Okay. If you have stuck around this long, then you are going to get tremendous value out of this next section of the podcast. And I'm excited to share this with you. So what I've observed and what I've also experienced is that there are two mistakes that are 95%, I mean, that's just an estimate, but I know a lot of people suffer from this and I did as well too. These two mistakes that people make when it comes to knowing their value, being able to articulate their skills and expertise. And number one is the value awareness gap. Many people are not aware of their own value. When I talk about tech professionals who are out there working and they don't know what their value is in the market today. What is the value that they're delivering to their companies? They just don't know. Many people are just over busy and working and they're not aware of their value. The second one is the articulation challenge. Many people do not know how to articulate their value in terms of results. I can't tell you as a hiring manager how many times I went in and when I was having conversations with people, they were so focused on what they did that they did not inform me of the so what. For example, if you say, I manage the team of developers You know, I managed 10 developers and we implemented this new feature. Okay, that tells me that you have some management skills and you did something, that you accomplished something. But if you said, I led a team of developers and we delivered projects over six months, 30% faster, and we saved the company $500,000. As a hiring manager, I'm going to say, I want that. I want to be able to then roll up because that aligns with my goals. I want to be able to deliver things faster. I want to be able to save money. Those align with my goals and you're speaking results that have an impact on me and are contributions that I need as a hiring manager. And so this is where it's so important that you understand and know your value, and then you're able to articulate that in terms of results. So those are the problems. And I want to give you a simple, straightforward framework that you can walk away with today and a couple action items so that you can go and solve this problem. I want this to work for you. I want to give you some value right here, right now. So Cal Newport, for those of you who know and love him, I do as well. He wrote this book called so good they can't ignore you. And it was about, you know, the value of having deep skills in an area and that that can, again, open up opportunities and freedom for you. And he talked about this concept, career capital, career capital is how he loosely described your skills is that's what you're investing in. I've taken that concept a step further. And I described career capital as three things, your education, your experience, and your results. So your education is, how have you learned and how do you learn new skills? Education, living and breathing, not something that you've done, not a box that you checked, but something that you do. Education. experience, skills applied in a real life situation, and then results. How do you describe quantitative results that you've delivered for companies that you've worked for? Let's think about this simple framework for a moment. Education, experience, results. So for you, listening to this right now to solve problem number one of the value awareness gap, you're going to go get a Google sheet, an Excel sheet, whatever sheet you love, and you're going to go put education, you know, but where did you learn the things that you know right now was that when you went to college? Was that, you know, maybe a certificate program? Was that self-taught, self-learning? Articulate how you learn things, because in the business that we're in, in technology, you have to be continuously learning. So talking about where you got educated, how you get educated, how you learn things could be reflection from projects. Articulate what you've learned. Articulate the experience that you've had for the last You know, two to three years, put, put those experiences, put some of those projects down there that you've worked on. What, what were, and then those experiences, what did, what skills did they enhance? Were they hard skills? Was it coding skills? Was it finance skills? Was it procurement skills? What skills, sales skills? What did they enhance? And then dig into the results. You should be able to go back and say, what results did I deliver quantitatively? And you want to be thinking about things that you did for the customer, whether you increased sales, whether you increased customer retention, whether you increased efficiency, but you want to be able to put some numbers on that. Go and articulate that. And thinking about the way that you describe your education and how you learn your experience and your results. Now pivot and say, I want to now go and describe what I've done and you can just go through that. And I usually start with results first. Hey, for the, you know, when I was working for GitLab, we delivered in a three month period of time, a revenue recognition program that reduced the time to close revenue by 48 hours. That ended up saving the company approximately $75,000 every quarter. Okay, I'm able to roll off my tongue, you know, and we had experience with that particular system. I'd implemented that a few times before. And here's sort of the playbook, you sort of go from results backward. And that's how I would tell that story, that if I'm in an interview, that's going to perk up somebody's ears, wait, you can save me 48 hours on my revenue close. for a software as a service company. I actually have one of the, one of the guys that I implemented that software with is now building a business, a consulting business about, uh, helping other companies, other SAS companies optimize their revenue recognition practices, which is so critical. This is where you start with your results, experience and education. When you're telling the story. This is why I think that this subject of expertise is so important that you understand these very simple concepts and you also understand where people travel. so that you don't make the same mistakes, so that you have the edge. Because the reality is we're in a hyper competitive environment that moves very quickly. And if you are able to understand your value in the marketplace, meaning that you understand what your skill level is, you're able to then go and mark that to market and understand what other companies are paying for that today. you can then go in and negotiate for what you're worth. When you know your value, you're then able to articulate your value and then you're able to negotiate for your value. If you don't know what you're worth, how are you going to negotiate for that? You won't. So this is why understanding and knowing your career capital is so important. And this is why for those of you who stuck around for the end of this, Uh, presentation, this podcast, I think has a lot of value to add. So I want to go back through, you know, sort of what we've covered off today is that when you are trading your time and talent for equity, number one, you need to think like an investor. And investors understand the nature of what's happening. This goes back to last episode, 81, when I talk a lot about the fact that this is a value exchange. So if you understand that it's a value exchange and you want to know what you're trading for on the other side of the table, you also want to know what you're trading with. That's what this week's conversation was about is that it's your skills that are articulated in results that are built to expertise will provide you with the most value. That's going to give you the most leverage in that particular negotiation. I went and articulated how it's truly understanding and developing this niche expertise for myself in SOX compliance and combining that with my other skillset created this package that allowed me to trade for equity in four different companies. Once I got this concept down, the first time it was a swing and a miss, but then I went three for four and I traded that for four companies and three of which went through an IPO. And so this is where you can do it too. Like this is not just a philosophy. This is truly a strategy that you can execute. I want all of you to go back through the case studies. I want you to do some due diligence, do some research, and understand how this worked for other people. Listen to their stories. I listed out four different podcasts that I've recorded with people that I know personally who have executed this as well. There's also the story that I communicated with Frank Slootman where, you know, a lot of that information is out there on the internet. I know we're writing up a case study on him too that you can go and study. And now, and finally, you have learned how you can now apply this today yourself with the concept of career capital. Education, experience, and results. You can go and create a spreadsheet, write down how you learned, how you continue to learn your skills, what are some of the key experiences that you've had in your career, and then focus on what are the results that you've delivered. Quantitative results, how you've moved those companies forward. Then you want to just flip it upside down and tell it in reverse, being able to pick out stories that you talk about how you delivered results, what was the experience that you got, and how that keeps you those experiences and results keep you learning and keep you moving forward so that you are an incredibly valuable asset that you can trade for equity. I want you to get in on this conversation. What resonated with you? Go, go into the comments here on this video. Leave some notes. What resonated with you? What questions do you have? I want your questions, whether that's here or if you go to tech equity and money news.com tech equity and money news. That is our weekly newsletter where we break down all of this learning into frameworks into strategies, and you can hit reply to any of those emails and we answer all questions. And then the most important question is, what do you want to hear on the next episode? Whether you leave that in a comment, whether you go and you get on the newsletter and you hit reply, let us know what you want to hear on the next episode. And at the end of the day, don't forget to follow this podcast. Don't forget to like this video. And most importantly, share this. Tell somebody else about what we're doing here at Tech Equity and Money Talk so that you can help them build wealth, grow their careers, and live the life that they truly deserve. All right? Thank you for listening. And remember, your expertise is the key to everything.