044: Cracking the Code to Executive Roles: Expert Advice with Maya Grossman

00:00 - 00:11 | Maya Grossman:
One last thing I want people to remember. Both faith and fear require you to believe in something that never happened. But only faith has an upside. So why not choose the path that's going to give you more options?

00:12 - 01:03 | Christopher Nelson:

Welcome to the podcast for financially focused technology employees. Are you working for equity? Do you have questions on how your career and money work together? Then welcome. Every week we discuss strategies and tactics for how to grow your career, build wealth and reach your financial and lifestyle goals. Welcome to Tech Careers in Money Talk. I am excited today to introduce everyone to Maya Grossman. Maya Grossman is an executive coach and educator that teaches high achievers how to break through to executive roles. After suffering some burnout earlier in her career, Maya cracked the code that got her hired at Google, Microsoft, and landed two VP roles at hyper-grossed startups. Now she teaches others how to do the same thing. It's a well needed and very important service. Welcome to the show, Maya.

01:03 - 01:10 | Maya Grossman:

Oh my God. Thank you so much for having me, Christopher. We're going to have so much fun teaching everyone how to get to the next level in their careers.

01:10 - 01:46 | Christopher Nelson:

Yes. And I, you know, if for people who don't, you should go and follow Maya on LinkedIn. And she gives so much value in her content every single day that reminds you, number one, that you need to be the owner and the CEO of your career. And that for those of you who are really trying to climb the ladder, that There are things that we unintentionally do that hold us back from getting those executive roles. And I think the first thing that we really wanted to just dive into is what are some of the top three things that you see that people do that hold them back from getting executive roles?

01:46 - 04:08 | Maya Grossman:

Yeah, that is a great question. And you're so right about this. I mean, when I look at the first half of my career, I was able to grow, you know, relatively quickly because I was the hardest worker. I was a high achiever. I just put in more time, more hours. And then when it was time to level up into a director role, I couldn't get it done. I tried to level up internally. I was rejected. I tried to level up externally. I was rejected. And I knew deep down that I had the skills. I could see other people who even had less experience than me doing it, and I could not figure out what was wrong. So I started working harder, which is mistake number one, because at this level, more time, more hours is not what's going to get you promoted. You need to work on the right things. You need to create a bigger impact. So that took a while to figure out. And the second thing that I was doing is I really, really hated Politics. I even told everyone who would listen, I don't do politics because I thought that was backstabbing. But in reality, it gets a bad rap. Politics is just a really good way to do networking with the right stakeholders. Because here's the truth, when you're going to get promoted, a bunch of people are going to sit in a room and make the decision and you're not going to be there. So the next best thing you can do is to have advocate in that room. And the only way to get them is to network and build that relationship in advance. So that was mistake number two. I was not building the relationships, so I didn't have that support system. And lastly, I'll be honest, I had a little bit of imposter syndrome because once I tried and I was rejected, I started believing maybe I'm not good enough. Maybe it's not right for me. Maybe it will never happen. And because of that, I didn't go all in. I didn't ask for that promotion. I didn't take action to actually qualify myself. So the three biggest mistakes people make, and I have made all of them. That's how I learned. I made the mistakes and I figured out how to fix them is working too hard on the wrong things. Never building that relationship because you don't like networking. And lastly, never raising your hand, asking for it or going all in because fear is actually holding you back.

04:09 - 05:46 | Christopher Nelson:

It's so interesting how the common thread, there's a couple common threads that I'm seeing between these three things. And I've had similar experiences and this is why I'm excited to double click into some of these. is that the common thread is ourselves, is mentally like blocking ourselves and not really understanding what's possible. And then number two is also believing some common misnomers, some false truths that appear to be real, meaning that as an executive, and I think that you're going to be in agreement with the statement, but as an executive, working very focused on the right things is going to be a much more valuable exercise than than doing all the things all the time. And the second one that you touched on too is, is what we perceive as politics is really, you're going to have you know, divisional departmental leaders that have different opinions, and they're going to want to be pushing forward their agendas because everybody is trying to show their value to the company or has a different opinion. But understanding how to go and build bridges and be on the positive side of that is going to add incredible tailwinds to your career. And I think the third one is that is how do we realize that imposter syndrome is normal for everybody, and that if we focus on our skills, and we really understand what are we trying to develop, and how do we build confidence in that through experience, through delivering results, that we can have those mental breakthroughs.

05:47 - 06:23 | Maya Grossman:

Yeah, a hundred percent. And you started by saying it's mostly us. And honestly, the biggest challenge that I see, and I work with a lot of high achievers, is that their mindset is the reason, their own brain is the reason that they can't level up and move forward and break through to those executive roles. And the thing is, our brain, it can be our best friend or our worst enemy. And the only question is who is in control? And unfortunately, the default is not you. So we need to learn how to take control and manage our own thoughts.

06:23 - 06:59 | Christopher Nelson:

So you have this track record and you have this story. You have a story that created this track record of you're stuck in this moment and then you started figuring out how to break through all of these mistakes. You at some point had to learn how to solve them and then you ultimately earned it by doing the work. Walk us through a little bit of your story of when You found yourself at this barrier, and how did you start breaking that down for yourself? How did you start becoming self-aware of how you were ultimately self-sabotaging?

06:59 - 08:50 | Maya Grossman:

Yeah, so the story kind of like I mentioned before is that I was ready, I thought I was ready to get into that director role and I did what I knew how to do. You apply, you interview, you send your resume, you try to get those roles, but I kept getting rejection after rejection. And it really hurt my ego and it made me start doubting myself. And I was doing it for almost six months and I was ready to give up. I remember sitting at the dinner table with my husband and saying, I think it's just never going to happen. I'm not good enough. And my husband looks at me and he says, you're right. And that was an aha moment because my husband is my biggest cheerleader. But then he said, yet. You are not good enough yet. You're not ready yet. So stop complaining and ask yourself, what do I need to do to get there? And that is how I moved from inaction to action, from hopeless to hopeful. And it forced me to ask better questions. Like what would it take? And I didn't have a clear answer. So what did I do instead? I started interviewing people who had the job that I wanted to have. So I started reaching out to directors. to see how they present themselves, what their journey looked like. I basically got the behind the scenes of what is expected from someone at the level that I was trying to get to. And what I realized is I did have the experience, I did have the skills, but I didn't know how to sell myself in a way that demonstrated that I was ready. And the more I learned from them, the more I learned how to position myself as executive material. And just a few months later, I got the role. No MBA, no certificates. I didn't have to redo my resume 20 times. I just learned how to tell a better story.

08:51 - 10:04 | Christopher Nelson:

That confirms a lot of things that I've been communicating on the podcast in some previous episodes where I've witnessed the same thing as well, where people have the skills, but they don't realize that the way that they tell their story and how they put it together can have a, I mean, as you were stating, a move forward or a stop effect. And that's so important. At the same time, it's obvious that this exercise that you went through That does sound like I can hear in that story, that profound moment where you're like, yet, okay, wait, let me get now do some self reflection. I myself have had that experience where if you go reach out to other people at different levels and ask them for what I used to call an informational interview, can I ask you about your role? I'm interested, not in your job, but I want to understand what it's like. because I aspire to be in that role too, I would find that people would take the call. If I had questions lined up, they would be excited to answer those questions. And you can quickly get the insights that say, where are my gaps? And that becomes something tangible you can solve.

10:04 - 10:42 | Maya Grossman:

A hundred percent. And by the way, I share this advice, go talk to people who have the job you want to have all the time. This is literally the best career accelerator. It's the hack that everyone wants. It's the shortcut. But too many people just skip it. It's like, ah, it's not going to do that much. I can Google it. Well, you can't Google it. If you could, everyone would do it because that is the inside information. It's the unknown unknowns that you're going to get that will eventually open the door. So everyone listening, if you can get one thing out of this podcast, go talk to people who have the job you want to have. It will transform your career.

10:43 - 11:43 | Christopher Nelson:

It truly will. And also, one of the things you said earlier is, how do you ask the right questions? And how do you ask better questions? The more conversations like that that you have, you'll you'll be able to ask a breadth of questions because What's important, and I'd be interested in your opinion, here's my thought, is you want to be asking questions about their day-to-day roles and responsibilities. You want to ask them questions about what I call relationship management, which is that networking, which is that political realm of how do they go out and manage those external relationships. You want to ask them about how they lead themselves, how they manage their day, and then how they in turn lead others. And then I think the fourth category I'm always interested in is How do they learn and keep advancing? Because the reality in leadership is that if you're coasting, you're going downhill, you need to continue to learn to move forward. What are some of the areas that you would ask people questions in?

11:43 - 13:07 | Maya Grossman:

Yeah, honestly, you pretty much nailed it. I think the most skipped question that has the biggest ROI is what does your day to day look like? And it's not just for you to learn, but it's also for you to understand, do I want to have this kind of role? Because a lot of the time you can see a shiny title and you think, okay, I'm just going to get there. But what if you don't like it? So it's a really great way to understand what the expectations are, where you're going to spend your time, so you can decide, do I actually like it? And do I want to progress in that direction? So I think that's one of the most valuable questions. One more question that I like to ask is, tell me about how you made the jump into this role. So I want to know exactly what it took, what were the challenges, so that I know. Because if I'm talking to someone who is just one level above me, They recently went through this transition, so it's still fresh and they can tell me what was painful, what was helpful. So I know how to spend my time better when I'm trying to learn and grow. And I will share one more tip that has been a game changer. At the end of every one of these conversations, you want to ask, is there anyone else in your network that I should talk to? who can help me figure out how to get to the next level because that's going to open doors for you. It's a warm intro. It means the next conversation is going to be easier and it almost always works because people are happy to do it for you.

13:08 - 13:52 | Christopher Nelson:

They really are. And because so few people are getting uncomfortable leaning in and having these conversations, you'll find that the people who do open their calendar up to you are usually incredibly generous and have other people in their network, too, who are looking for people to mentor. There's something that you and I have in common that I think people need to take away from this call is I am not afraid to reach out to people that I don't know in a gracious, helpful, respectful way and say, may I please have time on your calendar? I will try and return the favor. I'll try and deliver value, but can I just have a conversation? The worst they can say is no.

13:53 - 14:34 | Maya Grossman:

I know, and you're already at no if you never tried. And I'll share one more little insight. As someone who has been a hiring manager, who got a lot of requests, and even now as a business owner, people like talking about themselves. And essentially when you jump on this call, your job is to listen. 20% you talking, 80% you listening to the person on the other end. And that means you're giving them an opportunity to talk about themselves. And people like that. It makes them feel good. So essentially, yes, you may be taking a little bit of your time, but you're already giving them something back. You're making them feel good. So you really shouldn't feel bad about reaching out. You can even think about it as you doing them a favor.

14:35 - 15:40 | Christopher Nelson:

I, I 100% agree with you, because I know for myself, when I was in those particular roles, when people would call me up, it's an opportunity also to pay it forward to, you know, help somebody else figure out how to get to the next level, maybe not step on a few landmines that you stepped on. And I honestly, from my position, there were sometimes when it was therapeutic, where I got a half an hour in my day to get out of my head to lean into somebody else and help. I can remember then turning back to my work and feeling refreshed and feeling invigorated. It was helpful to me. Yep. So as you started progressing your career, so you figured out how to unlock and get to the director role, that was arguably, you know, rung number one on this ladder that you continued to move up to get to senior director, to get to vice presidents, and then start getting into some of these larger companies. How did now you start taking that foundation and what were some of the other steps? What were some of the lessons that you were learning along the way?

15:40 - 19:24 | Maya Grossman:

So funny enough, I actually learned this lesson earlier in my career, but I forgot to implement it. And that was the first time I actually took control and I created my own opportunity. And it happened pretty early. I actually started my career as a travel agent of all things. And while I was working there, I also did my bachelor's and I specialized in marketing. And I started asking myself, oh my gosh, maybe I should have a career in marketing, but how do I do that? I have spent almost seven years in the travel agency. They didn't really have a marketing department, so I didn't have opportunities and I didn't want to take a step back. So for a really long time, I was just stuck in the middle. There's nothing I can do. It is what it is. But then the pain of not doing marketing, which is what I wanted to do, became bigger than the pain of not doing anything. And I asked myself, what if it was possible? What would it look like? And I came up with an idea. I said, I need a little bit marketing experience so that I can jump into a marketing role. How can I get that experience while working at the travel agency? And the answer was actually really simple. I'll do marketing for them. And I didn't try and change my job. I said, I'm going to do it on the side. And that was early days of Facebook and Twitter. And my suggestion was, I'm going to build out the community for you on those social channels. I'm going to do the content. It's going to give me experience, but it's going to get you new clients. And I'm going to do it in my spare time. It's not going to hurt my day job. And because I've been there for almost seven years and I built trust, they said, hell yes, why not? Do whatever makes you happy if it makes us more successful as well. And I did it for about six months. I gained the experience. I had proof that I can actually execute. And with that, I landed my first marketing role without taking a step back or a pay cut. I actually stepped into marketing because I already had business experience. I worked for this company for seven years. I knew the dynamics internally. I just needed a little bit of extra boost in the marketing side. And that was easy for me to do while working for that travel agency. But look, no one came to me and said, there you go. Here is the marketing experience. I had to ask for it. I had to create the opportunity. Now you would think that would be enough for me to figure it out, but then I went into my first marketing role and I started as a very junior account manager. And after a couple of months with the company, something really interesting happened. We were growing really quickly, getting more and more customers, but we didn't have enough account managers. So things were starting to fall apart, but the CEO couldn't see it. All he was focused on is getting more clients into our pipeline. So one day I had enough. I had a little bit of a Jerry Maguire moment and only millennials will know what that means. And I sat down and I wrote an improvement plan. Now, mind you, that improvement plan was a Word document with five bullet points. Okay. Nothing fancy. It was just, here's the problem. Here is how we can fix it. And I scheduled some time with my CEO and I said, look, you can't see this happening because you're really busy selling, which is great, but we have a problem. Here's my solution. I think you need to go and hire a manager because this is not working. And I will never forget because he looked at me with a smile. I just told him the company is on fire and he was smiling. And he said, you know what? You're absolutely right. You're the new manager. Go figure it out. That is how I got my first leadership role. And that was the aha moment. You create your opportunities. You don't wait for them to come to you.

19:24 - 20:18 | Christopher Nelson:

If you, by reverse engineering your strategy there, it is you see the opportunity. It also, the interesting thing is it aligns with skills that you want to build more of. You go adding value, taking, investing some of your own time, right? We all have to take risks and we're investing some of our own time. You start to get movement. You then create this opportunity and you roll it up. And that is a strategy that obviously work for you multiple times. And I definitely see in fast growing and hyper growth startup companies, there's opportunities like that everywhere. Because as these companies are growing so fast, some many times these problems will evolve and, and, you know, be there festering and they need somebody to go take movement and take action. That is, you know, your mantra of taking control being the CEO, seeing the opportunity and moving towards it.

20:18 - 22:40 | Maya Grossman:

Exactly. And look, if I'm being honest, that company where I got promoted, I wasn't the most senior person. I wasn't there the longest. I did not have the most experience. The only difference was I saw the problem and I was willing to take action and actually make a suggestion about solving it. That is the only difference. Every single person at that company could have done the same thing. It's a matter of caring enough, being aware that you're trying to create opportunities. And then taking that small, very small risk, raising your hand and offering a solution. And you can do it at every single step of your career, whether you're just getting started or you're already a VP or a director. That's how you're going to open doors for yourself. You need to start operating at the next level before you get the title. But a lot of people that I talk to have the kind of reaction that says, Oh, but I don't want to work for free. Well, first of all, I'm not asking you to work for free, definitely not forever. But what you want to do is demonstrate that you're capable at operating at the next level. And I want to explain why this is so important to do in advance. When the company is considering a new role, they have two options. They can hire internally, meaning give someone a promotion or hire externally, someone who already has the experience. Now, for the most part, they want experience, so they look externally. Why? Because if they promote someone internally, they need to take a leap of faith. They're going to give someone more responsibility to do work they've never done before. But if you start doing that work earlier, If you take on some of these responsibilities and you show that you can totally do it, then it's not such a big risk for them. And then it will make more sense to promote you, right, than to hire someone externally. But it's not going to happen at the point where they actually put out the job description. At that point, it's too late. It needs to happen before. They need to see you as potential for that role before They even put it out there. That's how you get promoted faster. That's how you keep growing inside of the corporate world. You don't wait for someone to save you. You create those opportunities with how you show up and how you build trust with the decision makers.

22:40 - 23:30 | Christopher Nelson:

And the advantage, the inherent advantage to that strategy is you're continuing to move your career forward because even if you don't get recognized by the company that you're at and you're building these next level skills, it's that experience and the results that you're delivering at that company that you can then go trade for another role somewhere else because now you're operating at that next level. So this, this goes back and this this consistently reinforces the point that says, you manage your own career, do not wait for titles to be given to you, because that rarely ever happens. And you need to go think of how do you continue to see opportunities to build skills to things that you're passionate about and create opportunities where you are, or leverage that experience to go get opportunities somewhere else.

23:30 - 24:36 | Maya Grossman:

Yeah, look, I'll be honest. I'm not a big fan of the corporate ladder because the corporate ladder was built for the average person. But for many of us who are high achievers, highly motivated, we want more. And the last thing you want to do is to keep yourself on hold for someone else's timeline. That's right. And that's why when I think about growing your career, I don't think about how to play the corporate game. I think about how can you operate like an entrepreneur? inside the corporate world in order to create those opportunities for yourself. Because if you follow the corporate rules, you're going to wait for your turn. You're going to wait for someone else to tell you that you're ready and give you something. And that can be a very long wait. Okay. For some people, if they're super lucky, a couple of years. For others, I've seen people wait for a promotion for nine years. Yes. When in reality, they could have gotten it so long ago. So that's the kind of mindset that I try to teach in all of my programs, how to think like an entrepreneur inside the corporate world so that you can grow your career on your own terms.

24:36 - 26:04 | Christopher Nelson:

I love that because what it is is, is I do think that there is an arc for, for people that have, you know, a desire to do more or to do things beyond the corporate ladder. And this methodology is truly teaching people to take that ownership that they're going to need. I mean, because the reality is, is that moving to be being an entrepreneur where there's, you know, no framework, not a lot of guardrails, the more that you can build those, you know, patterns and systems and rituals that you have yourself, the more you're going to be prepared for it. And this is why focusing on skills you need to build, where can you really add value as you're climbing the ladder, those are all going to translate into whatever business you want to build afterwards. I'm sure that a lot of the skills that you learned in and as an executive, and I talk about this because people ask me all the time, oh, you're doing an education business, now you're running a real estate business as well. And I became an executive and I can be multi-modal. I had to run delivery to multiple different departments. So this is a skill set that I built as an executive. now I can go and execute it as an entrepreneur. What are some of the skills that you feel or that you know that you built as an executive that help you exceed as an entrepreneur?

26:05 - 29:02 | Maya Grossman:

Yeah, so funny enough, I learned a lot about how to grow my career from the business world. So I wasn't reading career books. I was listening to podcasts. I was reading business books because what I realized is, to your point, that if you want to manage your career like a CEO, you need to think like one. When we think like employees, we assume that we're a little cog in a big machine and we create a lot of fake limitations, right? My company will not let me do it. My manager doesn't want to promote me. The economy. But those are all external circumstances. It has nothing to do with your choices. And no matter what is happening around you, you can actually take action and change those circumstances. And I prove it to my clients over and over again. Every time they give me a fake limitation, I show them how to bypass it, overcome it and actually get the results that they want, but it's a matter of mindset. So I use those business books to learn about that, about my mindset, about the brain and how it works and how to think differently about basically how I manage my career, how I make decisions. So when it comes to the most valuable skills, I would say the first one is think more strategically. I also know it's very vague, very fuzzy, and very often managers use it to tell you why you can't get promoted. I don't think you're strategic enough. And they struggle to explain it because it's actually a combination of a few different skills. It's not just one thing. And it depends on your perspective, the amount of knowledge you have, how you ask questions and whether or not you can see the business as a whole, as opposed to just your specific department. But you can learn that skill and once you do, that is the meta skill that helps you learn a lot of the other things. So I would say thinking strategically, how you communicate and understanding executive communications is going to be a key skill and especially how to influence people because shouting the loudest is not how you get consensus. It's not how you get buy-in. You need to learn how to work with people. And I would say lastly, one of those skills is probably managing your own thoughts, learning how to overcome fear. And you can do it with self-talk. You can do it by understanding reframing and you can do it by actually building confidence. And the only way to do that is to take action. And a lot of people get it backwards. They think when I'm confident, I'm going to go for it. That's exactly the opposite. You need to develop the skill to take action without guarantee. And when you do that, you're going to build competence and competence brings the confidence, but you have to start the loop. So getting good at taking action would be one of the most valuable skills.

29:02 - 30:03 | Christopher Nelson:

Well, it sounds like you have a bevy of skills that you were able to, to lift and shift over to your practice today where you're coaching people on how to become the CEO of their career. I want to take a quick break. And then when we come back, I want to deep dive into that is how do we, you know, leave people that are listening to us today with some of those core concepts. So we're going to take a quick break. We're going to be right back. All right, and we are back here for the second half of this episode of Tech Careers and Money Talk with Maya Grossman. For many people, you and I have both seen this out in industry where they're waiting for things to happen and waiting and waiting. And we know that for them to really get the career, get the lives that they want, they need to become the CEO and own their career. This is something that you teach people. What are some of the big mindset shifts that people need to make to become the CEO of their own career?

30:03 - 32:09 | Maya Grossman:

So I would say the most important mindset shift is first and foremost to believe in yourself. And I want to explain why. There's research that actually shows that humans are incapable of rising above their own opinion of themselves. And the shortest way to remember it is what you believe you achieve. And if you don't believe you're ready for something, You never will be. You won't take the action. You won't show up the right way. And it's almost like a self-fulfilling prophecy. You're going to stop yourself. You're going to sabotage your own opportunities. And I know when I share that, a lot of people say, there's no way, right? Mindset can't make such a big difference. So I want to prove it to you and tell you a story. I don't know if you're familiar with the four-minute mile story. And for centuries, people believed that it's impossible to run a mile in under four minutes, to the point that doctors actually said the human heart will explode if anyone even tried. Wow. So what happened? No one tried, right? And then in the 1950s, one person, Robert Bannister, was able to finally run one mile under four minutes. And guess what? He didn't die. His heart didn't explode. But that wasn't even the best part. In the next five years, 20 other people were able to break that record. Wow. Do I think that the human body magically changed in those years? I don't think so. The only difference is that now people had example of what's possible. So they believed. And when they believed they could do it, they were able to achieve it. So if you want to be the CEO of your career, this is step number one. This is how I start my program. We learn how to believe in our own capabilities. And what I love to tell people is that if it does not defy the laws of physics, it can be done. This is how much you need to believe in yourself. Okay. That is the only obstacle. And if you have that belief. The how is going to become the easy part.

32:09 - 32:34 | Christopher Nelson:

Wow. That it's very powerful. And I know that that people do have a lot of fear in in apprehension. But the reality is, is people they're doing so much in their day to day is there, do you have them at some point perform a writing exercise or something so that they can, you know, start seeing some of the things they're capable of to find this belief?

32:35 - 34:03 | Maya Grossman:

Oh, of course, because it's so hard to just convince yourself. You can't think your way into confidence, right? We need some actions here. And I love a quote that comes from Alex Hormozy, who built a hundred million dollar business. Like I said, I take a lot of career advice from the business world. And he said, you don't need to build confidence. You need to build evidence. Okay. Confidence is going to come as a result of having evidence, not the other way around. And the way you do it is you build your confidence by stacking undeniable proof of what you can do. And the practical way to do that is to create a brag list. And a brag list is simply a place, it can be a document, it can be a paper, whatever works for you, where you capture your achievements, everything that you're really proud of. And it can be personal and it can be professional. And I'll give you an example. One of the things that I have on my brag list is the fact that I put myself through college and when I graduated, I had no debt. That was hard. It was challenging. I did not think I could do it, but I figured it out and I overcame a huge obstacle. And every time I look at it, I remind myself, this is what I'm capable of. So if I did this, I'm going to figure this next challenge as well. And that's the point of having a brag list. It's a reminder of what you're capable of so that you'll have that confidence to take action.

34:04 - 35:01 | Christopher Nelson:

I can't validate enough what you've just said because the power of writing. I know when I was in some different challenging moments of my career, you know, and I didn't call it a brag list, but I was just like, let me just see, write down the evidence of what I've done. Let me go into detail. And then became a practice as I was, you know, actually working with my managers to prepare myself for whatever promotions came next. I always walked through my body of work and we had conversations about it because I wanted to make sure that what I was delivering was front and center and that we saw it the same way. Visceral exercise of writing it down and seeing it is freeing. It's mentally and emotionally freeing and can really unblock you because we can't, this finding, this belief is not going to just be found in your head. I have not been able to discover that.

35:01 - 36:01 | Maya Grossman:

Yeah. I think when I was younger, I spent a lot of time looking into personal development, learning how to become a better version of myself. And I remember at the beginning, I thought it was all about mantras, that you just talk to yourself and by talking to yourself and Saying things you're going to make yourself more successful, but that's not the point of mantras. And again, talking or thinking yourself into success is impossible. You have to take action. But what it does is it reframes how you think. And if you say something enough times to yourself, or if you look at the brag list enough times and remind yourself what you're capable of, your brain actually rewires and it moves from not having belief to having belief in yourself. And if none of that works, one last thing I want people to remember. Both faith and fear require you to believe in something that never happened, but only faith has an upside. So why not choose the path that's going to give you more options?

36:01 - 36:24 | Christopher Nelson:

That's amazing. I have not, I don't think I've ever heard that quote before. That's very, very powerful from a mindset perspective. So finding the belief is the first step in becoming the CEO of your career. What are then some of the other foundational steps that people need to be taking or things that need to happen so they can then start moving forward?

36:25 - 40:26 | Maya Grossman:

Well, usually the biggest challenge when it comes to growing your career, and we talked about it, is that at that point when you step into those senior leadership roles, executive roles, because what got you here, which is very often hard work, is not going to get you there. And you need to have a complete shift in strategy. And what happens is most people try to do just one thing. They try to work harder, exceed expectations, and they think that is going to open doors. But in reality, especially if you want to keep leveling up, you actually need to do five different things. And if you're only doing one, you're essentially forgetting about 80% of the actions that will get you promoted. So when I teach people how to break through to executive roles, I show them those five elements and I'm happy to share them here with everyone today. So I actually call it the startup system because I want people again, to remember they're the CEO of their career. And they can actually be a startup, be the product and create their own opportunities and go to market. So what is the startup system? What is included in it? Like I said, you're going to need five things. First, you need a strategy. This is the part that most people miss and it costs them years. Why? Because they make assumptions that are not right. For example, I need an MBA to be an executive. So I need to go spend two years and $200,000 to get a title that essentially is not required. I rarely see anyone ask for it anymore. It used to be important. It's a nice to have. You can spend those two years leveling up a lot faster. So just one example. So strategy, knowing what the next level requires and doing the things that will get you there so that you don't waste your time working more hours. You work on the things that have meaning and impact. So strategy is step number one. And then we talked about it, advocacy. You need people who will go to bat for you when it's time to make a decision about your promotion. Think about it this way. When you go and buy a product on Amazon, you want the product with the best reviews, right? If there's a product with zero reviews, you're not going to buy it, even if it's good on paper. It's the same with your career. You need those reviews. You need other people to vouch for you. So you have to build those relationships. So number two is advocacy. And then it's about your reputation. How do people perceive you? And I see it all the time with people who are high achievers. They rely on being the get shit done person. They just go all in super hard because they can. But if you're the get shit done person, you're not executive material. It's one or the other. It's a very different perception. So you need to build the right one. You need to show up as an executive before you actually get the title. And then you do have achievements. It is important that you are not only good at your current job, but you can also exceed expectations and start operating at the next level. And lastly, and this is the part that everyone skips because no one asks for it, but it makes a huge difference. You need to present a business case. The decision about promoting you is a business decision. They're not going to do it just because they like you. You're going to get promoted if it's going to be valuable for the business. And if you can make the case for it, if you can show what's going to happen when you're promoted. how valuable it's going to be for the company, it's going to be a slam dunk. And most people only focus on the past. They say, Oh, I did all of these things and I worked so hard, so I deserve it. Instead of thinking more strategically and saying, I have done all of these things before, which means I'm going to be able to do that much more for you when I am promoted. And then it's a win-win and each and every one of these will get you closer to a promotion. Having all five almost makes it impossible for you to fail.

40:27 - 42:22 | Christopher Nelson:

That's a very, very powerful and concise methodology that as you were checking those, or as you were stating those, I was checking those things off in my mind and realized that that's it, that's it. And I think where people can really get that acceleration is just starting, number one, is what's the strategy. I also think it is important, one of the pieces of advice that I was given that I thought was very, very powerful is is thinking not just one step ahead, but also two steps. And that's for two reasons. Number one is you want to understand, are you going to want that next role? Or is that next role maybe even outside of industry and you're doing your own thing? The other thing is that sometimes the incremental difference to get to one step beyond where you're going to get from a director to a senior director, the delta between those two roles is not that much. So maybe setting your sights on that, you can actually be working forward. But I think that strategic aspect is so important. And the advocacy. I think what many people do not realize is that when you go from being a senior manager to a director, you go from your direct hiring manager and boss having the majority of the say over whether you get promoted to the next thing is when you get to an executive level, everybody is going to have a say or the majority of people that influence your particular role and how it will impact them will have a say. And if you don't understand that, and you don't have experience in building those external relationships, that's a whole new muscle to build. And, you know, just like weights, right? If you're all of a sudden you go, I'm going to go bet bench 225 and you've never done that, that's going to hurt. So anticipating that and seeing around that corner is important.

42:23 - 43:02 | Maya Grossman:

And this one little thing can keep you stuck for years. I worked with one student who had everything that it takes, like he checked all the boxes in terms of experience and expectations, and he built a great reputation, but he was just waiting for someone to come and tell him, you're it, we want you. And he was waiting for two years and what started happening when he learned about this strategy, he did a roadshow. He literally just went around all the stakeholders and told them, Hey, I'm ready. Here's everything I've done before. Here's everything I'm going to do at the next level. And within six weeks he had the job.

43:03 - 44:17 | Christopher Nelson:

And that goes to show you too, people, like this is where, and I did this, I was a guest on a podcast earlier this week where they talk about how do you, you know, living lifestyle outside of the matrix, right? And they're big fans of the movies, The Matrix. So it has this framework, but we get caught into these beliefs. There's this belief of, I would say old corporate, like maybe the corporations that you've heard about in like the 60s, 70s and maybe 80s. And then when we're in this, especially in the startup worlds, it is a business and you need to be able to Being strategic is about creating a business case for yourself and being able to show the value regardless of you're not going to get the promotion based on time. This is not a seniority business. This is an experience, results, and how you can show your value kind of business. And it's important that people realize that because that can that will take them I think moving when we think about the mindset shifter, the CEO, these are some of the things that are going to start moving you forward and getting you those promotions.

44:17 - 45:09 | Maya Grossman:

Yeah, and I would run away from a company that only promotes based on seniority, honestly. I've had that situation when I realized I have to wait for my turn, even though I was doing more, producing more. I just took myself somewhere else and immediately got promoted because I already had the skills and the chops. So sometimes it's just about having that awareness. Do you actually want to wait or do you want to do something for yourself and get that promotion, right? So sometimes you have seasons in life where you want to lay low, maybe you have other things happening for you and that's perfectly fine. But if you're in a season of growth, waiting is not a career strategy. You really need to ask yourself, what do I really want? Am I ready? And just go after it. It's very likely you'll get it.

45:09 - 45:50 | Christopher Nelson:

It really is. And I definitely want to, we're going to move here into the fire round. I want to wrap up this portion with, you know, just pausing for that encouragement. And it is so important that getting promoted, there's a huge part of it, which is, believing in yourself, looking at the evidence, saying, okay, am I ready? And then just taking that risk. Because it reminds me, you said the phrase earlier, it wasn't in the way that I've heard it before, which is, the way I've heard it is it was Wayne Gretzky, a hockey great who said, you miss 100% of the shots you don't take. So take the shot. Yeah.

45:50 - 45:51 | Maya Grossman:

Yeah. You might just get it.

45:51 - 46:16 | Christopher Nelson:

You might. And if not, you're going to and if not, you're going to come back with data. You should be getting the data that says, OK, what do I need to do to get it? Or is this or do I need to go somewhere else? Those are those are critical data points. So let's get into the fire round. I'm going to ask you five questions that I think are really focused on career, on growth. What was the worst advice you ever received when it comes to career?

46:16 - 46:18 | Maya Grossman:

Wait for your turn.

46:18 - 46:18 | Christopher Nelson:

Yeah.

46:19 - 46:21 | Maya Grossman:

It's just a waste of time.

46:21 - 46:30 | Christopher Nelson:

It really is. It really is. I love that. So now you're an entrepreneur. You've had this great track record in corporate. How do you keep learning?

46:30 - 46:43 | Maya Grossman:

Oh, I'm actually doing the same thing I did in corporate. I develop a system called the growth machine, which basically automates learning. So I turned it into a habit. There is not even a single week in my life that I don't learn something new.

46:43 - 46:54 | Christopher Nelson:

That's great. I love that. That's the title of our next podcast episode, The Growth Machine. I love it. So what do you do to recharge?

46:54 - 47:11 | Maya Grossman:

I'm not very good at taking time off, but I'm getting better. So I just came back from a weekend at a dude ranch. So I was feeding animals and just spending time in nature. But I also really like fancy spas every now and then to have like a pamper day.

47:11 - 47:19 | Christopher Nelson:

Nothing wrong with that. That's some good core relaxation. That's for sure. What advice would you give to your younger self working in tech?

47:20 - 47:44 | Maya Grossman:

I would probably tell myself to start earlier. So I thought I had to earn my right to ask for things that I wanted and I had to play the game. So the first seven years of my career, I pretty much followed the corporate rules. I would just tell myself a lot earlier, trust yourself, you can do it and yeah, start early.

47:44 - 47:51 | Christopher Nelson:

That's great. What soft skills do you think has helped your career advance the most?

47:51 - 48:14 | Maya Grossman:

Okay. Thinking strategically and mostly thinking outside of the box, uh, communication skills, learning how to share my thoughts and my ideas in a way that really resonates with other people. And I would say understanding sales. And that happened a little bit later in my career, learning how to sell myself, learning how to sell ideas. And eventually as a business owner, learning how to sell my services.

48:15 - 48:30 | Christopher Nelson:

So important. Yes. Well, Maya, I can't thank you enough for coming on today and sharing all of this. I know that people are going to get a huge value from it. Where can people find out more about you, the resources, your program, and how to work with you?

48:31 - 48:46 | Maya Grossman:

Yeah. So I'm mostly on LinkedIn. Just look for Maya Grossman or go to mayagrossman.com to get a lot of free resources. I have a starter kit right now about the three mistakes and how to actually fix them. Um, so yeah, you'll find it on my website.

48:46 - 49:00 | Christopher Nelson:

Great. And I will make sure, and I will put the links in the show notes. So thank you so much for joining us today, everybody. And if you enjoyed this show, we just ask that you leave us a review on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts. Thank you very much.