033: Strategic Giving for Long-Term Impact: Guide to Nonprofit Sustainability

James Harrington (00:00:00) - Most people give out of their income statement, they give out of their available cash, and oftentimes it's in their taxable income, cash. So they go through all of the earnings and then get taxed on it and then give it away. As our net worth goes up, the percentage of our net worth in cash goes down dramatically. Most of our wealth ends up being held in other investments. If you can learn the tax code available to us to give out of your balance sheet, not your income statement, there's some really amazing things that can happen.

Christopher Nelson (00:00:32) - Welcome to Tech Careers and Money Talk. I'm your host, Christopher Nelson. Is there a way that you can strategically donate to nonprofits that can allow you to keep more money? Yes. There is. There's a way that you can maximize your giving impact, as well as being able to keep more cash. When you get to the end of the year and you file your tax returns. We're going to talk about that today in the second half of our episode and the first half of our episode, we're going to teach you how do you actually vet nonprofits, and what are the questions that you ask so that you can understand where they are in their growth cycle and the impact that they're going to deliver? We're going to do this by interviewing a friend and a founder of a nonprofit organization that is doing things vastly different from what you see in a lot of places in the market today.

Christopher Nelson (00:01:24) - And it gives you an example to see, touch and feel what this great look like. Because when you understand what great looks like, the benchmarks and you see and understand the type of conversations that you can have, then you can have that on your own. I'm super excited to share this with you today. Let's talk to James right now. I want to welcome James Harrington to Tech Careers and Money Talk. James Harrington is the CEO and founder of the Ugandan Water Project. He's focused on creating a sustainable enterprise to solve the water poverty problem in Uganda. The key thing to note about him is that he actually started his career as a roadie in a church band, and I did have to let him know that this is a podcast interview where this isn't a fundraiser today. Thanks for dressing up, James. Thanks.

James Harrington (00:02:14) - Well, only the best for you and your audience. It's great to be here, Christopher.

Christopher Nelson (00:02:18) - Well, thanks so much, I appreciate it. So we want to spend some time today understanding, you know, how do we evaluate nonprofits in strategic giving and to get right into it? Eyewitness.

Christopher Nelson (00:02:31) - So I had the privilege to go with you to the Ugandan Water Project, walk on the ground in Uganda and see an organization that is building a sustainable solution that's different than going and dropping off resources and saying, I'm going to help you today in disappearing. This is truly a process of today, tomorrow and forever. What do we do when we go and look at nonprofits and we ourselves are high net worth? Individuals want to make investments as our donations, right? We want to really create impact. Yeah. How do we evaluate, you know, and understand, you know, people that are giving for short term versus people that are building for long term sustainability.

James Harrington (00:03:16) - Yeah, that's a great question. And I think the first lens that I pull out is to ask myself, you know, what is the need here? Is this organization tackling relief rehabilitation or development? Right. So we're all familiar with the newsmakers for relief right. Emergency relief. These crisis situations I have myself but you know, have gone into these international disasters.

James Harrington (00:03:42) - Right. That's a very different intervention than development in between. There's this, uh, rehabilitation where you're trying to get from disaster to development. But most of the work that's going on in this world is in that development stage where it's long, slow, methodical relationship building, really trying to balance, you know, the the intervention and making sure it's healthy for everybody involved, that you're not positioning the organization or the donor isn't positioning themselves as as the savior, but really partnering with. So that's the first lens I get out of it. I'm just asking, hey, is this a relief, rehabilitation or development interaction? And most of the time we're talking about development long term, whether it's locally in our community here or internationally. So that's the first one. Yeah.

Christopher Nelson (00:04:34) - And so when you think about international development, like what percent of giving in the United States is going towards international development today.

James Harrington (00:04:44) - You'd be surprised when it comes to charitable giving, uh, that that you and I participate in.

James Harrington (00:04:50) - Only about 7% of philanthropy is going to international causes. So even though you see it in the news or you see it online, you hear about it. A vast majority of our giving is locally, and I don't have a problem with that. I live most of my life in my local community, but for what I do for work, the organization I lead, um, we recognize there's a lot of trepidation and fear and just ignorance of like, hey, I don't this is weird. You want to take my money and take it to where? And it's a long way away and all these crazy stories. So, yeah, only a small percentage. And I think that's because there's a lot of fog just like, I don't know what to expect.

Christopher Nelson (00:05:31) - Interesting. So as you know, if if I'm coming into an organization like yours and I'm a donor walking in the front door, what are what are some of the first level questions that is really important for me to ask so that I can understand, you know, who you are and and why you should be on my list of companies to donate to.

James Harrington (00:05:53) - Honestly, it's an excellent question and I myself am also a donor. I mean, there's causes I care about. And so really there's three go to questions for me. And the first one is, hey, what is the goal? I don't mean the lofty, ethereal vision of the future. That's important. But I'm talking about, hey, what is the goal? The big bag, right? Those people that this organization is working on, what's the goal? How do you measure progress to that goal? Like there should be a way to measure progress. And then how is the organization doing on that progress. And I think that's so important because I know for what we're doing in Uganda, the Ugandan water project is trying to bring safe and sustainably managed water to all the people in Uganda. And that's the goal. And it's really clear. And then we get a little more in the weeds as to how we measure that progress and that. But transparently, we should be able to tell you if we're making that progress or not.

James Harrington (00:06:47) - And that's a great conversation for the donor and the organization to get into to see if it's a great fit.

Christopher Nelson (00:06:55) - And so if you ask somebody a question and let's say their answer or their goal, you can tell right away it's too broad. Is that something that would be a scenario where it may not be a good fit for you, because you don't see them focused enough? I mean, I want to try and, you know, just sort of model. Well, just model up some of these situations. No ding on anyone. But, you know, how do we make good choices?

James Harrington (00:07:20) - Yeah, I would say it's important to leave a little room for the progression because honestly, you know, you as a donor actually participate in the development of that vision a lot of times. And so even just engaging in the conversation, uh, if there's a lot of other great things about the organization, sometimes the conversation you're having helps them dial those things in. And so it could be that they're more focused in their work than they are in the way they talk about it.

James Harrington (00:07:49) - And so I think I think, yes, it's good to ask yourself like, hey, if this seems so big and ethereal or if they're if they're a brand new organization, say, they're saying they're going to change the course of a nation, you know, there's a little bit of a scale imbalance. It's not believable. Uh, but sometimes it's just a matter of, you know, organizations feel like they have to talk huge, even though they have a good tactical approach. So the conversation itself is a really important part of discovery.

Christopher Nelson (00:08:19) - Well, and it sounds like this goes back to, uh, this, this model that you, you spoke about before, right. Relief, rehabilitation and development is how to do these goals, how does that line up with some of those. I would call that an execution methodology to make sure that yeah, okay. That sort of congruence. And then yeah, uh, going beyond that, it sounds like the next level is, there is not just how they're doing on meeting the goals, but there is how are you meeting your goals? Like what is the way that you're actually moving the ball forward.

Christopher Nelson (00:08:54) - Right. So that we can actually see and understand that as well.

James Harrington (00:08:57) - Yeah. And I will say like some of those conversations with some of our most vested donors, because we really look at it, like you said, as investors, as partners, uh, we, we started out really focusing on water projects for rural communities, just more and more and more of them. But it was in that dialogue we realized, hey, this is not the, the, the singular way to reach our goal. And it began a really great dialogue that challenged us to add not just safe water today, but sustainability tomorrow and the systems change policy, kind of water security forever. And so, honestly, it's, uh, engaging in that interactive dialogue. Oftentimes, uh, can really move things from, from one level of effectiveness to, to another.

Christopher Nelson (00:09:46) - Well. And I can say from my perspective, you know, engaging with your organization and some other ones that we consistently provide to, uh, and donate to.

Christopher Nelson (00:09:56) - They to your point to your earlier, you know, uh, term see us as investors in as partners, meaning that we're not you know, you may think of donation as I put something out and it sort of goes away, but they see us as, you know, investing our money. And they also see us as thought leadership partners and take the opportunity to say, you have a business mind, you understand how to solve complex problems, you know, help us, you know, help us solve this. What do you think? You know, tell us where we're, you know, uh, where we may have a potential blind spot. Yeah. I think as an operator, you know, how do you feel? Like it's most important to engage with donors so that there is that mutual value.

James Harrington (00:10:47) - Yeah. Well, I think, you know, again, continuing this idea of looking at as we're investing together into change, um, and with that, there is a partnership, uh, within our team, we often talk about, hey, this is, this is the mission that we're that, you know, our donors are hiring us to, to accomplish, like, they're stakeholders that are saying, hey, we want to we want to see this happen, and you can do it.

James Harrington (00:11:12) - We can't, but we can do it together. And so I think just having a collaborative approach is important. Now, granted, we have some of those investors who are saying, hey, I don't need to be in all the conversations and I already have plenty of friends. I believe in what you're doing. Just take my money and go get to work. And then there's other people who are saying, no, I want to get down in the trenches with you. You know, clearly, you know, you and your family just literally got down in the trenches with us. So you're at one end of the spectrum. But I think, you know, asking that question of, hey, is there room within this, uh, set of relationships for the way I like to engage as a donor with this mission? You know, and I think that's, again, those are important things to explore.

Christopher Nelson (00:11:56) - They are. And I really like your response because it is important for us, you know, as high net worth individuals are engaging in this, realizing that we can want to engage in multiple different ways.

Christopher Nelson (00:12:09) - To your point, I love the way that you phrased it saying I am investing for change. If you know, there was a part of, you know, my 20 year career, a large part of it was really spent in commerce, in generating revenue. And the impact we did was growing these commercial enterprises. That was great. And I got a lot of, uh, enjoyment from that. However, in this phase of my life, I want to invest for impact. I want to see it, touch it, feel it, and buy it. Other investors, other, you know, donors and or investors of change may not want to have that same participation, and that is okay. However, I do think it is important that you have a framework as a responsible investor of your money to understand where your dollars are going. Yeah.

James Harrington (00:13:00) - Yeah, you'll have a lot more confidence. And so and that really will unlock your passion for the cause too, because as your confidence and in the alignment between you and the and the organizations you're, you're investing with, as that alignment is improved, your trust improves and your confidence to really go out there and be part of telling that story that that goes through the roof.

Christopher Nelson (00:13:22) - Right? Right. Because then we as donors become advocates to bring our friends to the table as well. And we're able to then, you know, compound the change. Yeah. I love the simple framework. Walk in the door. We're asking the three questions. You know, what are your goals? How do you measure them? And then how are you executing and how are you doing. You know as far as your goals go. What? What should we think about in the ways that we ask about, you know, operations versus impact? I know that some people can have, you know, some opinions that will wait if it's operationally laden, you know, I'm not going to invest in that. The reality, though, is you are a business and you may be going through different cycles. You know, how should we be thinking about asking the question and what are the answers we should be listening for?

James Harrington (00:14:18) - Yeah. So I think it's important to ask the question of what percentages and things like to be aware of how what you know, what's the general tendency of the organization, um, to make sure that that really, um, you know, it really resonates for you personally.

James Harrington (00:14:35) - Um, but you know, know where they're at in their strategy cycle. Because sometimes one snapshot today doesn't mean that that's how it reflects every, every year.

Christopher Nelson (00:14:45) - Well, because you go through cycles like other companies where you may be investing in growth, you may be investing in training, uh, you may be investing in core infrastructure. Hey, we need to buy a truck this year or other things. Absolutely. Other pieces of things like that. So, uh, how do you generally, you know, somebody asking that question? I mean, what should we expect to hear if somebody is being transparent and you're walking us through a business plan?

James Harrington (00:15:12) - Yeah, well, first of all, you know, like so many situations, knowing your numbers is really important, right? Um, so certainly I come into those conversations, conversations ready to talk about real numbers, real percentages, and not just right now, but sort of, hey, this is where we've been and this is where we anticipate to be going like, and that that transparency and specificity, again, builds trust with prospective investors and donors.

James Harrington (00:15:41) - And then I also talk about, again, that sort of anecdotal of like, here's what we're trying to do because where I just spent the money is less important than where we're going with the mission. Right. And so when I say, hey, here's the opportunity ahead of us. So, you know, we're getting ready to support the National Ministry of Water and the Environment in Uganda with a major strategic, uh, lift to help them move forward. Well, guess what? We're spending money on hiring people, training people. Right now because we don't want to get into that and not be prepared. So I talk about what's ahead so that those prospective donors know, oh, wow, what a great thing it is to see an increase in admin costs right now. That means we're not going to be caught unprepared.

Christopher Nelson (00:16:30) - Right?

Christopher Nelson (00:16:30) - And we're going to be ready to go in and execute on a critical project. So I think you're right. Especially on admin versus impact, I think it's important for us as donors to really understand the business plan, get aligned and how that executes the mission now.

Christopher Nelson (00:16:48) - Yeah. I believe I shared this story with you, but I think it's important to talk about the time when I was a young man, impressionable in college and somebody came around. They called me on the phone and they were selling, uh, you know, stickers to the police. I bought a $20 sticker, and when I put it on my window, one of my friends said, that's a rip off. And I asked, what do you mean? And they said, they didn't give me the answer, but they said the next time they called, now you're on the list. They're probably going to call you incessantly. Ask them how many dollars, how much of a dollar goes towards the actual cost, how much goes towards fundraising? Because by law they have to tell you. And when they call back again, you know, really a few days later to see how much more I wanted to lean into this, I ask him the question and they said it, you know, something ridiculous like $0.20 or not even that.

Christopher Nelson (00:17:47) - I think it was like, you know, 20 or $0.10 on every dollar actually went to the cause, you know, it was like an 80% fundraising load. What is something that's reasonable, like help us understand, you know, and obviously fundraising goes in seasons too. But when we think about an entire, uh, you know, non-profit, what is normal or what's reasonable, I.

James Harrington (00:18:11) - I think there's such a wide range of nonprofits out there. And so what I'll speak to is, I know for the for the kind of work that we do in international development, uh, and certainly the water sector, I know that there's sort of a threshold where, uh, trying to maintain your cost below 20%, um, is sort of a target that a lot of us aim at and, you know, sub20. That's just sort of a target for us that we're like, hey, this is sort of a standard of excellence we're trying to manage towards. Right. And we just want to be aware that if we're getting close to that boundary for us to challenge our own efficiency, that doesn't mean we're going to let that percentage decide how we steward and execute on mission.

James Harrington (00:18:56) - But it is sort of a flag, and we start to get in that zone to say, hey, we need to examine this challenge ourselves. Also, just as you get to know the relationships, like, I'll never forget the first year that our organization literally not just raised it, but we wired in a year over $1 million to Uganda. And that had been a goal of mine. Just because I was like, man, it just would feel so good to see that. And when you talk to me and you know that that fire burns in someone's belly, you're like, oh, these guys are trying to make an impact. So look for those indicators of what they have. Aside from the donor's question, what are their own, like just burning like, yeah, I want to see this happen.

Christopher Nelson (00:19:38) - Well into that point. How much like when you think about your personal selection and where you donate, how much is dictated by leadership, not just meaning a single person, but, you know, a group of people that are really, you know, on a mission there.

James Harrington (00:19:54) - It's huge because honestly, uh, you know, all the resources in the world, it's like, you know, the money is fuel, right? And if you've got a full tank of fuel, um, that's not what wins a race. Uh, we have a friend, Jim Adams, who's really into it. He's been exploring racing. Right? At the end of the day, there's a lot more to just fuel that wins a race. You've got to actually be able to drive, and you've got to have a team keeping that car running. And so I think, um, the fuel is critical. You cannot win a race without it. But so much more relies on the team. And for us, that team, is what really makes things happen. So I think it's absolutely important to know, you know, the longevity of the team, what the turnover is. Uh, you know, sort of where they're at in their life cycle because it matters if you're getting on to getting onto a train in the and the engineers getting ready to hop off, you're like, oh, wait a minute.

James Harrington (00:20:47) - This is a very different experience than if you know someone's like, oh yeah, I got, you know, ten years more vision personally. Um, so I think how they pipeline leaders, you know, is this a top down or a single center kind of organization, or are they really raising up, um, young dynamic leaders and helping develop them and get them into the mission, too?

Christopher Nelson (00:21:12) - So we've covered off on. You know, some of the fundamental questions you would ask thinking about operations versus impact. Tell us, you know, as we start closing out the section of the conversation, you know, what are some more advanced level questions as you're doing a deeper dive? And if, you know, you think about, uh, one of us, we're doing a significant donation, you know, of, of high 5 or 6 figures, even seven figures. What are some questions that we should be asking?

James Harrington (00:21:43) - Yeah. Uh, first of all, if you've never, you know, just like you and I as individuals or families, we submit a, you know, an end of the year, tax year, a 1040 write our tax return, write organizations, submit a 990.

James Harrington (00:21:58) - Uh, and so, you know, ten minutes on YouTube will give you a quick guide of how to work your way through that to understand what you are looking at. But that's a great resource. Every public charity has to file one of those. And that's one snapshot that allows you to go, okay, this will give me some understanding of some of the financials and some of the big programs. And again transparency. So you can even see the board and things like that. So knowing your way around that really equips a donor as they're doing their due diligence. I think, uh, what they put out there on their website and what they make accessible to you, um, is also a great question to look at their social media feed. Um, and, and certainly their website, um, you know, what, what financials or audits do they make available to the public? And then, um, you know, I think aside from that, looking at some of the external references.

James Harrington (00:22:52) - So for instance, Charity navigator or candid, so some of these third parties that are sort of the equivalent of the Better Business Bureau for nonprofits that say, you know, like we work really hard to maintain a candid platinum seal of transparency for our organization because we know that, hey, if people are already wary about giving overseas, this is one thing we can do to say, don't take our word for it. Ask these folks. And so I think those are a few different strategies that you can add to your due diligence kind of process when you're making a stop and think gift.

Christopher Nelson (00:23:26) - Well, and that's that's great because from what you just said, not only can we do some external vetting, but we can actually then get Ahold of the financials and really do a, a deep dive on those to go in and have rich conversations as we're trying to understand the business plan and understand the mission and those types of things. What are indicators to you that a nonprofit is being transparent?

James Harrington (00:23:53) - Yeah. I mean, I think, you know, first of all, uh, being able to, uh, really make some of the reports and financials available, like, how easy is it to find out the information? Uh, you know, technically, every public charity is supposed to make that accessible upon request at the very least.

James Harrington (00:24:12) - But it's a very big difference to have that really right. They're easy to find 2 or 3 places on the website where if you see it in their social media, like, oh, hey, here's a quarterly report from such and such, or here's our annual report. And how much detail do you provide in that? Um, so part of it is just looking for how accessible it is to really pop the hood? Um, the other is just how responsive is the organization? Uh, you know, if you reach out to them, do they answer the phone? Do they respond within a day or so? You know, some organizations don't have big staff. So a little grace for small organizations. But if they're not responsive, um, that's an indicator of transparency. So I think those are a few things. Uh, but you know, just just, you know, what is it you want to know and can you get at it is a big, a big, you know, starting point to orient yourself.

Christopher Nelson (00:25:07) - Well, thank you so much for giving us this overview of how we evaluate a nonprofit. I think you gave us some key things that we can start with and some even more advanced. I want to take a break right here. And when we come back, I want to spend the second half really talking about strategic giving. What are some of the vehicles that we can use, and what are some of the strategies that we can implement? Because this is something where I got a little bit of a, um, you know, bus ride MBA as we were spending some time together and, and learning some things that I didn't. So I really am excited to share those. So we'll be right back. All right. We are back with James Harrington, CEO and founder of the Ugandan Water Project. And from his perspective, you know, sitting on the nonprofit side, he understands a litany of ways to strategically give. Now, for many of us, and I know for many years, myself and my wife Rege-jean, our strategy was at the end of the year, we have a few, uh, nonprofits that we want to donate to.

Christopher Nelson (00:26:11) - We write large checks and we just pass it over. What I came to understand is that it's a very inefficient way to give for a couple of reasons. Number one is we're, uh, providing these large dollars at the end of the year that may not allow the nonprofits to have time to strategically plan. Uh, there's also other vehicles that we can use to be more strategic in the way that we're giving. So one of the vehicles that I learned about that we utilize today is a donor advised fund, very lightweight, very easy to stand up. In fact, Daffy is a daffy com, I believe is a, uh, nonprofit or, sorry, a donor advised fund that you can stand up and that vehicle anytime we personally write a check to it. It is a nonprofit entity that then allows us to get the write off immediately, and then we can strategically give whether that's large gifts, whether that's, um, giving monthly recurring revenue, which is a way that we really like to give so we can be part of a, you know, the run rate of impact, if you will.

Christopher Nelson (00:27:19) - Yeah, but that's I mean, again, there's even more beyond that. So take a few minutes, talk to us about, you know, donor advised funds strategies. And then and then we'll get into some more advanced strategies.

James Harrington (00:27:33) - As well I think I think it's it's so exciting to me because I think this is where you can really get into some, some real partnership and helping people, because I can't tell you, I got really excited about this because I had so many conversations over the years of people saying, I love what you're doing. I just wish I could do more. And realizing that as I educated myself and as we learn from experts or even some donors came in with different levels of knowledge that I learned from and then passed it on, realized that you can do it, and your audience will understand this because of what you guys talk about all the time. Most people give out of their income statements. They give out of their available cash. Right? And oftentimes it's in their taxable income, cash.

James Harrington (00:28:18) - So they go through all of the earnings and then get taxed on it and then give it away. Um, and the truth is, as our net worth goes up, the percentage of our net worth in cash goes down dramatically. Uh, most of our wealth ends up being held in, in other investments, everything from intellectual property to real estate, the business interests. Right. And so 90% of the assets that Americans have are non-cash. Uh, only 10% is cash. And yet three quarters of our giving is in cash. And so the truth is, if you can learn some. The things that the tax code makes available to us to give out of your balance sheet, not your income statement. There's some really amazing things that happen. You can end up giving percentages of interest through a DAF in real estate, or in a C Corp or S Corp. And what's amazing is in the early 80s, this was pioneered by a businessman who was just passionate about a cause. And he went to his CPA and his attorney and said, can we appeal to the IRS if I want to give some shares in my C corporation to this cause I love, could they honor it the same way as if I was doing a stock donation and the IRS approved it, and it set a precedent that allows some really creative donations that ultimately can allow you to give more to a cause, uh, certainly dramatically reduce your taxable, uh, your tax that you pay and then end up often with actual more cash in your pocket for your family.

James Harrington (00:29:53) - It's counterintuitive, but it's amazing some of the options that are out there that we just aren't aware of. Most of them.

Christopher Nelson (00:29:59) - It's true. And this works very, very well for technology employees who have incentive stock options, non-qualified stock options, well, more for non-qualified stock options or use restricted share units that you can actually then go and take the fully appreciated shares, transfer them into your donor advised fund. And as James said, then we get to donate the full value. I know that before we discovered this, uh, and we we did discover this a couple of years back, we would then liquidate shares, give the cash, but we didn't realize, okay, we were giving then a portion to the government instead of being able to to give all of it to the nonprofit. And when you have this shift between income statement giving and balance sheet giving, it gives you a lot more flexibility to be able to. And this is what's in it for us as donors. We can give the amount that we want, and we can then keep more of our cash.

Christopher Nelson (00:31:06) - That turns it into a win-win for everybody.

James Harrington (00:31:10) - Absolutely. And it really is surprising when you start to realize that you can give long before it ever hits a taxable state. And in that your values and your assets get aligned in a way that's really satisfying. Uh, I've talked to business owners who are approaching a wealth event and exit, and there's almost a grief because they've poured their heart and soul into their company, and they know it's time to exit. But it's painful because they're like, oh, 40% of it. Whatever happens next is going towards taxes. And they don't realize that. If you want to get intentional about it. Um, yeah. You know, the tax guy is going to take it or you can donate it. You are going to part with a portion. But man, what a legacy opportunity for you, for your family, for the causes that really light your heart on fire. And so I love it that we one of the things I love doing is just connecting people to some of these experts that we've built relationships with over the years that can say, hey, I can be your guide to help you understand this, or I can some of these work in conjunction with your current CPA, with your current wealth manager.

James Harrington (00:32:21) - It's not trying to move you to a new account and saying, hey, no, this is someone that can help you plot that out with your current team. And that's amazing.

Christopher Nelson (00:32:30) - It really.

Christopher Nelson (00:32:31) - Is. Because, you know, for people I know who are listening in to this, they do go through acquisitions, they accumulate a lot of stock, and there is a real way that you can then provide impact to these organizations that are doing things you want to do. And generally speaking, the way it comes out in the wash is you keep more cash. You are able to, you know, hold on to some of these other things. So I think it's definitely something to look into. I know you were the one who, um. We're the one who pointed me towards Daffy. Do you see that there are other players coming out that are taking. You know what I mean? I know when we got our first donor advised fund, I think in 2013 or 2014, the experience was a little bit clunky.

Christopher Nelson (00:33:22) - But are there, you know, more, you know, avenues, I guess you would call it fintech that's popping up that you're seeing.

James Harrington (00:33:30) - Yeah. No, I mean, I think it's and if you've never heard of Daffy, that's a great one because they have a really easy interface. It's super fast. Uh, you know, I think it's a lot more complex for me to get a YMCA membership than it is for me to open a donor advised fund these days. But the truth is, many, many of the, uh, many of the financial institutions that you're already working with on investments have a donor advised fund. Um, now, they don't all know how to handle complex gifts. So, like, if you're saying, hey, we have, uh, you know, not just publicly traded securities, which most people know how to handle, but you're like, hey, I have LLC interests or mineral rights or limited partnership that I want to commit a part of. It's a smaller group.

James Harrington (00:34:13) - You know, the National Christian Foundation actually pioneered that in the early 80s. And so they're a great one. If you have complexities, they know how to handle just about anything. And, uh, and so I think what's cool is you got both ends of the spectrum. You've got these ultra lean almost. It's more of an app experience than you have a traditional, you know, fidelity and, you know, Morgan Stanley, they all have DAF vehicles. And then you get some of these specialty houses like NCF that really say, oh yeah, if you've got an interest in an alligator farm in Florida that you want to commit to your charity of choice, we can figure out how to buy and hold that or buy and sell it.

Christopher Nelson (00:34:52) - That's great. So if somebody there's also when in partnership with your nonprofit, one of the things that you taught me as well is if if I want to give a lump sum, there are strategic ways to then partner with you that say, well, let's think about timing and other things because you can then, uh, two extra impact.

Christopher Nelson (00:35:14) - And while that won't be the write off or benefit or more cash in my pocket, it allows me to take what I'm giving and expand that. What are some of those strategies?

James Harrington (00:35:26) - Well, yeah. And here again, we're getting back into that, uh, positioning as we're investing together. Right. And so you want to see this mission move forward. And so if you provide that strategic lead gift, oftentimes that is providing, uh, you're, you are blazing a trail for other donors to come in and participate. Uh, people like to do things together as a community. And oftentimes your courageous, visionary step of investment can entice others to take a step that might be a bigger step than they would normally take. And so oftentimes we've worked with, um, you know, folks that are able to to give a more strategic size gift. And we say, let's position this as a lead gift or a matching gift. And it will. The way I like to say it is, it activates other, uh, other donations, other resources.

James Harrington (00:36:19) - Um, and, and for the organization that you're giving to, it often helps us to open up partnerships because it's not just, uh, activating our donors. Sometimes we're going to another, another collaborator and saying, hey, we have a lead gift. Do you want to come in? And we'll do this together? And then you've got the alchemy of skills and experience and communities coming together. So but I think it's a great question to ask as a donor to say, hey, we're thinking of something like this. How would you know, hypothetically, how have you used gifts like that in the past to be a catalyst or for a tipping point, uh, gift? Something to move something across the goal line. And is there anything on your horizon that you know you would get excited to be able to do something like that, that helps you as a donor know how to use your resources, but it also helps you see how the organization that you're, you know that you're learning to love how they think and what what they would do with that, you know? So I think it's exciting.

Christopher Nelson (00:37:18) - Well. And this has all been, you know, very insightful because, you know, ultimately. We want to think as investors with our money. You know, we spend our time on talent, we get tech equity. And there's a huge opportunity for us to invest, for change, to invest, for impact through non-profits. And so being able to vet them and then having strategic ways that we're giving is essential to, you know, our skill set. So thank you so much for sharing those today. Before we wrap up, we always have a bit of a fire round going to walk you through a few of our questions here. Yeah. Let's get ready. So you know how you keep learning. Like what are ways that you continue to learn you're in this space? I see you as an innovator there. How do you keep learning?

James Harrington (00:38:05) - Yeah. You know obviously I'm always listening and reading and things like that. But I would say the biggest learning I do is, is in relationship to other people that I know share that aggressive appetite for learning.

James Harrington (00:38:16) - So I love to be in community with other aggressive learners that are challenging me to think differently and learn alongside them.

Christopher Nelson (00:38:25) - Oh that's great. Now I know you have a heavy travel schedule and you know, you, you, you know, you have a business that spans a couple of continents. So how do you recharge?

James Harrington (00:38:37) - Yeah. Uh, making sure that I have a rest scheduled is one part of it. Uh, as much as I, you know, I'm often as soon as my feet hit the floor, I've got I've got, you know, most of my staff is eight hours ahead, so. Yeah, long hours, sometimes making sure I've got time, downtime scheduled and then knowing that as much as I travel for work, that discovery and adventure is a part of how I recharge. So making sure I have some travel that's not work on my schedule as well, that's important. Fills my soul. Uh.

Christopher Nelson (00:39:07) - That's huge. What soft skill has helped your career the most?

James Harrington (00:39:14) - Yeah.

James Harrington (00:39:15) - Honestly, learning to ask great questions. Uh, so really just, you know, open ended curious questions that draw you into a relationship with other people. Uh, improving the quality of my questions has improved the quality of my life so dramatically.

Christopher Nelson (00:39:35) - All right. So we are, you know, a career in money show. So the last two questions number one or the number four would be what advice that you'd give your younger self for from a career perspective.

James Harrington (00:39:49) - Yeah I would get more intentional about the network. The professional network uh that the younger James uh, was, was not even aware of. I'd be like, hey, start in your 20s getting intentional about connecting with professional mentors, professional colleagues, and professional community, because when I got serious about that, that's when I mean, again, relationships are rocket ships. We've said it before, and that really launched me forward. So younger James could have benefited from another few years of being aware of that.

Christopher Nelson (00:40:23) - And so the last one is what is the worst? The worst money or investing advice you've ever received?

James Harrington (00:40:31) - Yeah.

James Harrington (00:40:32) - Yeah. That that, uh, that, that you're going to save or cut costs or coupon yourself to success. Right. You know, like nothing wrong with people that enjoy that. But you cannot coupon yourself to a financial transformation, instead focusing on the assets, skills and value. Add that I bring to the table. Uh, that's what I discovered. And so often in my younger years, it was like, how do I conserve, cut, shave, you know, trim my way to success, right? Oh my gosh, that is not going to work.

Christopher Nelson (00:41:01) - Yeah.

Christopher Nelson (00:41:02) - And it can yeah. It can be just mentally exhausting. So tell people how they can find out more about you and the Ugandan water project.

James Harrington (00:41:11) - Absolutely. Well no surprise Ugandan water project.com is a great resource for you. As we said, we love being transparent. We love connecting. You can find us on social media. Uh, just look for the Ugandan Water project on Facebook, Instagram, uh, whatever you prefer.

James Harrington (00:41:29) - And then I'm really transparent. So James@theUgandanWaterProject.com is my email address. And I actually do want to hear from you. So feel free to ask questions about what Christopher and I have been talking about, or anything that you'd like to know more about the Ugandan Water Project.

Christopher Nelson (00:41:46) - Well, James can't thank you enough is super valuable information. I will let you get to your event now.

James Harrington (00:41:53) - All right. Thank you.

Christopher Nelson (00:41:54) - Take care.

Christopher Nelson (00:41:55) - Thank you so much for listening to today's episode. I just have one ask. Please go to TechCareersand MoneyNews.com. Yes, TechCareersandMoneyNews.com and subscribe to our new newsletter. That's where you can get weekly information on how to grow your career, build wealth and meet your financial goals. Thank you.