004: Mastering Money Mindset: Achieving Financial Success in Tech with Jenny W

Christopher

Well, thank you so much, everyone, for joining today. I'm super excited to introduce Jenny, Jenny Whichello. Jenny is a serial CFO who has worked for many retail start ups and has had a tremendous career and I think has won some awards too. As a matter of fact, I know that. And now she's working as a head of finance for Prime Membership growth and engagement at Amazon. And more than that, she also runs a money coaching offering that she has, to private individuals that's really focused on not just money coaching, but also money mindset. Welcome to Tech Careers & Money Talk, Jenny.

Jenny

Thank you. It's a joy to be here. 

Christopher

Thank you. And so before we get into the money side, but because we are Tech Careers & Money Talk, I want to spend some time, you know, walking through your career. I know that you didn't walk out of school and all of a sudden become a CFO that transformed financial organizations. And I know that a lot of those things really defined your view of money today. So, you know, walk us through a little bit about, you know, how you got started 

Jenny

Yeah. Well, you know, I, ummm, my career started - I actually, right out of undergrad, went to work for Accenture and I did consulting for the federal government, which I sometimes felt like was an oxymoron because we're sort of telling them how to how to transform and how to change and then, oftentimes I didn't really follow through with what we're doing. So I decided to go back and do my MBA and right after I finished graduate school, I sort of stumbled into a role as a VP of Finance for a fashion startup. It wasn't an industry that I went after and I, I certainly wasn't going after being a finance executive - I had no real experience at that point. I think I was about maybe 25 years old. But it, it just, naturally became the right environment for me, this entrepreneurial environment. And so I did that for about sixteen years. I was either a VP of Finance or a CFO for a startup, always in the fashion industry, with one exception; when I worked for a 130 year old British shirt maker called Turnbull and Asser. Although I did take an entrepreneurial approach to running that business.

It was also never on my radar to get into tech so when the opportunity presented itself to me, it sort of came out of the blue. It wasn't anything I was looking at, and I actually, honestly, didn't really know much about the tech industry or the big you know… I knew of the companies, right? But I always thought about them within the realm of engineering. And so, yes, I was approached about a finance role in tech, and I thought, “Well, this is interesting, I'll check this out. There's something.. something I'm supposed to get out of this experience, even if it's just the interview process”. And I had heard yeah, I had heard that the interview process at tech companies was very rigorous. So I thought, all right, well, at a minimum, this is good exercise, right? Like, it’s good practice. But when I, you know, prepped for the interview because I'm one of those people that, you know, I wasn't going to go in and sort of, you know, phone it in. I did want to put my best effort forward. I just learned a lot about the tech industry in general that that sort of blew away my expectations or I guess my assumptions I had made, particularly around finance.

You know, I didn't realize how big and how important finance was as a discipline within tech companies and how finance roles partner directly with the business on strategic decision making. 

Christopher

Right. 

Jenny

So that really kind of piqued my interest and ultimately, I thought, you know, making a pivot from being an executive in retail startups to being one of thousands of finance employees in a big tech company could actually open up some doors and ways for me to grow and so I ultimately decided I would take a chance and make the pivot. 

And so getting back to the beginning of your career, right. Do you think that your experience at Accenture and I came from Accenture too...I did almost ten years there. Do you think that, that experience at least, it gave you a framework of skills that made you successful when you moved on to, you know, a different industry in different roles? 

Jenny

Absolutely. I say that all the time. And actually every I think every job interview I've ever had, I said that the experience I had at Accenture was the foundation upon which all of my success has come. You know, being 22 years old and thrown on to a client site. I think my first client was the U.S. Holocaust Museum in downtown D.C. and we were doing an ERP implementation. 

I didn't know what ERP meant, you know. Being thrown in there and saying, you know, “OK, this is a mandated, (congressionally mandated) project to implement this ERP” and, you know, “this is the role you're going to play”. I'm being like, “I don't know what I'm doing here or what this is all about”. And having to figure it out and figure it out quickly…that kind of sparked that…It kind of turned on the entrepreneurial spark in me because that is what it's like when you're in a startup. You're literally figuring things out as you go. You're making mistakes and learning quickly and pivoting. But then also working in consulting, you know, it wasn't just, it wasn't exactly like working in a startup because consulting firms have a set way that they go about approaching their projects.

Jenny

And so there was a regimented approach to some extent. So it was like it was kind of merging those two together, taking a scripted approach for how we solve problems and deploy solutions, but doing it in a bit of chaos and uncertainty and sort of it tested you in both realms of being able to mean to be process driven, which I am very much even today, process driven, but also creative and strategic at the same time.

Christopher

Right. I mean, this is something that I just want to make sure that people are really hearing. You hear, when you're listening to this is that…and the other person that I interviewed previously as well too, you know, really talked about the fact that honing your skills and getting a set of skills, getting a framework that you understand can help leverage and then move you more successfully into the startup environments because then it's, you have tools that help you then take the chaos and bring some order to that and bring some structure to that.

Jenny

Yeah, absolutely. Yep. And then having that first consulting experience on my resume, it's…it gave me skills that I've come back to for the past 20 years.

Christopher

And so let's list some of those. Like, what is important to people? I want, you know, people to understand what, what are key skills that you think are critical, especially when you're starting out, to focus on.

Jenny

Yeah. So I think fostering a “systems thinking” mentality, so the ability to take big uncertain problems or issues and start to tease out the elements and break them down. And then figuring out “OK, if we have this massive project and then I can break it down into these key components, which ones are more important? Which ones are related to others, which ones are the priority, which ones, if I tweak this one, it's going to have a trickle down effect over here”. The ability to analyze projects or problems like that is critical to finding one the best solution and then deploying it quickly. So that’s, you know, that's why throughout my career I've never gone looking for companies that were in trouble or needed a transformation. I think maybe I interviewed and I was often offered roles that I turned down because I thought “I will be bored”.

Christopher

Right. 

Jenny

And so I naturally weeded out companies that sort of had their stuff together and was drawn to companies that really needed someone with that core approach to problem solving to come in and fix things. And that's how my career ended up working for a number of companies that needed, needed to undergo transformations. 

Christopher

And so, for my edification, when you go and do a retail startup, is it similar to a tech startup?

Do they offer you equity?

Jenny

I was offered equity a couple of times. I think it sort of varies. Equity's not a massive piece of retail, mainly because retail companies don't necessarily hire a ton of tech people. And it's tech… I think it's technical people or people with technical skills that typically come in the door and want equity because they're helping to actually build product right? But a lot of the companies I work for were traditional brick and mortars first, you know. And then eventually we added on e-commerce so we never had huge tech infrastructure.

Christopher

OK, and so when you think about this…I know that as you started working as a CFO, then all of a sudden you start working with owners and you know, again, more established executives that, you know, have accumulated wealth who have, you know, a different money mindset, a different view on money. How did now your career ascension and your view on money start changing because of who you are around? 

Jenny

Yeah, you know, it's interesting. I look back on my career and I didn't realize at the time that I was learning so much about money, just just doing my job. Right? I was the head of finance. I was learning a lot about personal finance at the same time, you know. Often in the fashion industry I worked for and worked with a lot of people that because we were in that industry, had to make it appear as if they were better off than they were.

Jenny

You know, they had to have the designer clothes. They had to have the nice apartment in downtown Soho. You know they had to have, they had to be seen at all the expensive restaurants and things like that. And because I was the finance person, I knew that behind the scenes, they couldn't really couldn’t afford that lifestyle but they felt that it was almost part of their job to do this.

Jenny

And so often I work with a lot of people that had a lot of financial stress and debt and often were in quite a big hole and that was my first realization that what you see on the outside is often and actually, probably the majority of the time, not what's really behind the scenes.. You know, that you see people with nice things and you think they're very well off or they're millionaires, et cetera and behind the scenes, they're highly leveraged and oftentimes broke. 

So that's the first lesson I learned and then I went to go work for a self-made billionaire. And, you know, I sort of expected to see the same kind of behaviors around money and I didn't. I saw what at the time I didn't have a word for, but I later learned it was really mindful…mindfulness. Mindful spending, mindful decision making, being intentional about money and investments, spending lavishly on things that really matter to you and experiences and people.

Jenny

And then being I know, I'm not a big fan of the word frugal, but being frugal with stuff that doesn't matter, you know? 

Christopher

Right. 

Jenny

And kind of toggling between those two worlds. And ultimately what that comes down to is,  using your money for the kind of life that you truly want and being smart about it.

Jenny

So I learned, learned a lot of lessons. And then I took a lot of that knowledge and applied it to my own personal finances. And then now I apply it with the work that I do with clients 

Christopher

To clients as well. That's great. And so I do, you know, sticking still to the, you know, the career side, obviously mentorship, I think is very important when it comes to careers.

Christopher

What impact did mentors have on your career? 

Jenny

Yeah, you know, that's a tricky question for me because you know, I was only an employee. Let me take that back. I became an executive very early in my career. Like when I was 25 years old. So I didn't have a lot of time to be mentored by somebody. When I moved into executive roles, I was often the highest person above me was the CEO or the owner of the company.

Christopher

Right. 

Jenny

And we didn't necessarily have a mentoring relationship. It was more of a partnership, and I was expected to already to oftentimes mentor them or to be directing them because they're you know, when you get into when you work in startups, oftentimes the owners are the CEOs of the company. They've never done this before either. You know, they're looking to build a team of people to tell them how to do it.

Jenny

So here I am, very young in my career, not having any mentors and then, and then working for someone who themselves needed mentorship. So I didn't have I didn't have a lot of mentors early in my career. What I did have was peer mentorship so I was you know, I was intentional about going out and building networks and getting involved in women's organizations, et cetera, that could fill that void for me.

Jenny

Now, the other component there is, despite the fact that I spent a career in the fashion industry, I only ever worked for men and I only ever with one exception, I worked for a husband wife couple, but I only ever worked for men predominantly. And all of my peers in the executive team were always men. And so, you know, there are a lot of studies that have been done, that men don't really mentor women the same way they mentor men.

Jenny

You know, they kind of shy away from that often. So even though I was sometimes working with very experienced people, they weren't open to really mentoring me. And so there was this you know, being an executive as you know, Chris. It could be lonely, you know, and it's even lonelier if you're the only one. You know, if you're the only woman or the only person of color, you know, you're actually lonely.

Jenny

And then when you work in the fashion industry, which is a creative industry and you're the finance person, you're like, you're not the most popular person. 

Christopher

Right. You're bringing around the budget and you're bringing around the bottom line. And they're like, you want to buy the new when you're..”No, we're not doing that”. 

Jenny

Exactly. You know, we're trying to ideate over here and come up with amazing designs and you're talking to us about money. You know? And so, really that peer network of women that were in the same position that I was in, was just critical in having someone there that understood what I was going through. 

Yes. But then also we could kind of support each other and. Yeah, so I can't really say, you know, aside from when I worked for that 130 year old company I think I mentioned before and working for a self-made billionaire, you know, he didn't have a ton of time to mentor me.

Jenny

But my exposure to him and my experiences with him, I learned so much. So I do factor that into how I operate today. I took a lot of learnings from that experience. 

Christopher

Well, and I want to roll this up because this is so important for you to understand, is that, and I'm not talking to you, Jenny, I'm talking to listeners, is sometimes there aren't going to be mentors, but peer mentorship is super, super valuable and so seek out peers. And this is the tip, right? As your career ascends, and this worked the same way for me so when I heard that, I was like, yes, peer mentorship is going to be much more valuable and much more relevant as you ascend because CEOs, the C-suite, they want the partnership.

Christopher

They want you to add into them and they don't expect that they're going to be this mentor. And again, that's not everybody, but that's you know…you need to build that own network. So as your career ascends, the network of peers becomes more critical. And guess what? You can start at any time in your career, because there's always people that are doing what you're doing at the same or different company that are trying to set standards, understand what it means, what's the difference between good and great?

Christopher

You know, folks that think, how do you accelerate your career and that want to help each other. I couldn't advocate for that more. 

Jenny

Absolutely. And I think it's just, it's also just really important if you are a minority in your field, you know, if you're a woman in a field like finance, it's predominantly men. You know, if you're a person of color in a field that's predominantly not very diverse, it's important for you to be assertive and take the initiative to build that network around yourself to help support you throughout your career. 

Because inevitably, you know, I mean, I went through a lot of difficult situations in my career that had nothing to do with my work products or what a great employee I was, but had a lot to do with just my identity. And if I hadn't had a support system of other women around me, I probably would have thrown in the towel really early on and given up on, on being an executive because it was so challenging.

Jenny

Yeah, and hopefully that'll change. You know, I think as more women have their support systems and they get into those higher level roles and, you know, that the overall trajectory changes for everyone. 

Christopher

And I also think that, you know, I really try and encourage and mentor people too, that if you don't find what you're looking for, create it. Because other people are seeking this and they will welcome your call if you stand up and you say, I'm a person of color and I'm doing X I want to create a community that we talk about this of people that you know are similar, that will happen. And then you can yeah, the learning is going to be off the chart so I huge advocate for that as well. So I want to put a bow on this career. I want to take a quick break and then I want to come back and I want to talk about money coaching, and I want to talk about money mindset because this is so important. So hang on. We're going to be right back with Jenny Whichellow. 

Christopher

OK, great. OK, and now we're back. We finished up the career portion. Thank you so much for the insight. Excited about that conversation. But even more so, I want people to know that I found you on LinkedIn and if you haven't, you want to go find Jenny Wichello on LinkedIn. There's not many, Jenny, Wichellos out there, gotta to tell you.

But she talks every day about money mindset and as I started reading it, it was something that drew me in. I read it almost every day. And it's so important because number one is, I've had throughout my money journey a lot of tapes that I had to realize these things are getting me stuck. I also, when I went through my first IPO, I suffered from sudden wealth syndrome, where it's a psychological syndrome. Imposter Syndrome. I wasn't prepared for what was going to affect my mind. So I'm a huge advocate of the money mindset. I really liked the way that you presented Jenny. I know you speak a lot specifically to women, but it resonates with me. And so when I would love to understand is, you know, where did you develop your passion for this and then I want to talk a bit about your philosophy, because I think it's very insightful.

Jenny

Yeah. Yeah, sure. I think so. I had no idea that there was even a thing called money mindset but I read, you know, I thought financial literacy was it. If you if you have if you have financial literacy, you're set. I had financial or I mean, I have two business degrees, you know, and I wasn't set for a while.

Jenny

And then I read A New Earth by Eckhart Tolle, which is a challenging book to get through. But it opened my eyes to the fact that we're not our thoughts. And that was just literally mind blowing for me. You know, we're not our thoughts. And most of the time, we're not even in control of the thoughts that we're having.

Jenny

And worse, a lot of them are not serving us because they're fixations on the past. You know, some write about some bad experience we had or some mistake we made with money or and imaginative thoughts about what's going to go bad in the future. Like, what bad thing is going to happen to me? I'm going to lose all my money in the future or something or lose my job, et cetera.

Jenny

That's where the majority of where our, like, head space is at. The majority of our thoughts are around that. And then I learned about the subconscious mind and how it drives us to take certain behaviors. And those behaviors over time become habitual so our subconscious mind is where our habits come from. And so then I connected the dots. You know, if we have negative beliefs about money and we fixate on some mistake that we made or some fear that we have about money, then we will subconsciously take action to ensure that that is our reality, to make it make it real for us.

Jenny

And I love the work by Dr. Joe Dispenza. And he says, “Our familiar past becomes our predictable future”. And so we stay stuck in this loop of having the same thoughts and the same emotions associated with those thoughts. And then we take action to produce the same results. And then we have more thoughts about those bad results that we had.

Jenny

And it's the cycle continues and continues and continues. And when I had that realization, I was like, wow, like, this is totally it. And I thought back on my own childhood and the experiences that my family had around money, you know, my parents grew up very poor in Alabama. They didn't have financial literacy. We had a perfectly fine life when I was growing up but they could have made smarter decisions had they one known, but then also had they not had a poverty set point. Right. So when you're a child, your subconscious is stuff it's like crammed full of stuff by the time you're seven, you know? And so the things that you experience as a small child then becomes the way that you operate in the world.

Jenny

And that goes that holds true for your relationships, your health. You know, whether you have a problem with obesity and things like that, oftentimes that can be traced back to your childhood and then that’s what's basically sitting in your subconscious and running as a script and then driving your behaviors. And so when it comes to money, that manifests oftentimes as a scarcity mindset, you know, so the belief that money is limited, you're going to go broke.

Jenny

You know, you got to be careful with your money because if you risk taking risks, you're going to lose it. And that keeps. So that's why people hoard things or they put money under their, you know, under their mattresses or they don't get into investing because they're afraid, you know. And then on the flip side is the abundance mindset, which is where we all deserve to be.

Jenny

And so I help my clients make that transition from a scarcity mindset, which most of us have to an abundance mindset. And then because I have passed the exam and I have all the knowledge about financial planning, once I have that abundance mindset, I can then take them down the path towards building, building a financial plan.

Christopher

That's great. And wow, you just said a lot, but I do think that. Well, but it's so true because, you know, I know even as part of my story, it’s interesting that I, I felt like there was more for me. I felt like I could have the IPO, I could have this big you know, sudden wealth event. And that's what I was really focused on and working for.

Christopher

What I didn't realize is that because when you don't do the mindset work, when I got to that moment, those tapes went on overdrive. And I think that happens to a lot of us in tech who, we know that we can generate the wealth, we see technology working in tech, working for equity is the way to get there.

Christopher

And then what happens in the is very dangerous is we then get this oversize position in a single company and we think, well, my great thinking got me there. My bad tapes are freezing. You did not move from there because I don't want to mess it up. I could mess it up. I don't know what to do. I mean, a lot of these, you know, negative thoughts I think creep into you know, a lot of you know, I've had those in the past and I know that those happen to other people, many other tech employees they've spoken to.

Christopher

How do you, how do you coach people through things like that? 

Jenny

Well, you know, the first step is awareness. And so, you know, there's a lot of stress, financial stress going on in the tech industry now because of so many people who have a high percentage of their compensation tied to stock. Yeah, right. And so, you know, people are taking essentially a pay cut right now and if you don't have a financial plan or you weren't prepared for that, you're having a lot of stress right now and your scarcity mindset and all your anxiety around money is bubbling, bubbling up to the surface very quickly. 

So the first step is awareness that you need to be aware that you have thought that you have these thoughts and oftentimes, you know, we have 90 around 90,000 thoughts a day. We aren't even aware half the time that we've got this mental chatter going on. So the first step is awareness. You need to be aware that you're having these thoughts. And the best tool for that is meditation. You know, it's a sitting meditation, can come in many different slices, but at the end of the day, meditation is about sitting there and having an awareness that your not your thoughts and noticing your thoughts. Right? And so it's not about focusing. People often think it's about focusing on something, but it is and it's about awareness. 

And so if you're aware of your thoughts and you're like, I'm having these thoughts about money, the next step is to be curious about that. Why am I having this thought? Where did this thought come from? You know what? Is there any fact? Are there any facts associated with this? Like, what do I know for sure? You know, there's a lot of talk about layoffs. People in the tech industry are worried they're going to get laid off. What are the facts that you know, do you know you're going to be laid off? Do you know that your department is undergoing some headcount reductions like or do you know that you saw a news article about it?

That's the only facts that you have. Right. And so really questioning our beliefs and figuring out like, how much of them are really valid. And then once you recognize that a lot of your beliefs are, quite frankly, garbage, you know, then you've got to take steps to. Yeah. To intentionally rewrite them. And this is the part that feels a little silly to people. You know, it's like, OK, well, I believe I'm, I'm bad with money because I'm bad with math. Right? That's a common one. I hear from a lot of women. 

So that's not true. There's plenty of people that are good with money and bad with math. You know, like especially not in 20, 23 when we have tons of tools and gadgets to help us. To automate things. Right. So, yeah, so let's rewrite that belief like you're absolutely fabulous at managing your money, you know, that you, you leverage your creativity to find awesome solutions to any challenge that you face. Let's rewrite that belief. That's the part that people oh, that's silly. I don't believe that. It's going to take you a while to believe it, but guess what? Like you it might feel silly doing this…Try to believe. Try to get yourself coached yourself and train yourself to believe these thoughts. 

But what's the alternative? To continue believing thoughts that you now know are false, right? And so I help them. I give them a number of tools to help them start to retrain their mind, to think more positive thoughts. About money. But then the real kicker is and this is part of my program that's, that's very unique. And I haven't found anyone doing financial planning that does this is “visioning”, you know. 

You know, oftentimes we jump right into, you know, OK, like you've convinced me I can be good at managing my money. Now, how much should I start saving? But first, let's ask why why do you want to save? Why do you want to get out of debt? Why do you want to have this house? Why do you want to put your children through college? Like, why do you want these things? Yeah, you know, I coach my clients through what I call visioning, which is a process of tapping into their subconscious to surface a vision for their life. And that could be a vision at the height of their career, a vision at retirement and a vision at the end of their life. Like at all those milestones throughout a person's life. What are you most grateful for when you're on your deathbed? What are you going to be the most grateful for? When you're, when you are utterly grateful for the life you led over 100 years or whatever, what comes to the surface is being what you're most grateful for. 

And when people get really clear on that vision and I give them some tools to make that vision real to them, you know, then we break that vision down into goals. And so here's the difference. If you tell somebody you need to start saving 10% of your income for retirement, OK, that's better than nothing. But are they going to be excited about that? Do they have an emotional reaction to that? No, so the likelihood yeah, the likelihood that they're going to follow through on that is it's rare. You know, it's low. If you tell someone I need you to start saving 10% towards retirement because you have this vision and that 10% is going to add up to this number and that number is going to give you by the time you turn 60 years old or whatever it is, the ability to travel to through Europe every year, whatever their vision is. 

Christopher

Right, whatever that happens to be. 

Jenny

Yeah. Then they have an emotional reaction to it and that's how they build and sustain momentum right. 

Christopher

And you know, I think one of the interesting things that I've observed about your process is, I've just been reading, you know, because you put a lot out there on LinkedIn, is you have the visioning, the visioning ties to the goals, which I think is very powerful. 

And this is I mean, it really worked for me as I had to, you know, did the what was it that I think Stephen Covey. Right. Began with the end in mind. You write your eulogy and you're like, OK, wait, how do I want to back into this? And then you tie that to very tangible goals. One of the things that I think that you have done that is really powerful and it was something that my wife and I did instinctually, but I think you've really formalized it, which is… Yes, you need to budget. Yes, you need to save. Yes, you need to auto invest but there's this very strict framework and then there's what works for you. 

And sometimes we have to you know, people can get look at that very strict framework that says, OK, you need to go to your budget, you know, once a week and do all this. And you're like, no, you need to have some pause. You need to automate and you really give people a license to understand what works for them. And I find that, that what it does is it does a couple of things. You tie the intention to a next reasonable step that works for that person, that gets them moving, creates momentum. And I think it's then that intention with momentum that's tied to the vision that then gets people moving where they need to go. 

Jenny

Absolutely. And it, it keeps them on the path you know. And so, you know, inevitably you're going to have hiccups. You're going to come across stumbling blocks and you know that and everybody does. And then a lot of people give up because they don't have that clear vision that pulling them forward, they're trying to push themselves down the path by tips and tricks and tech tactics and mechanisms and. Right and everything. And that doesn't work. You know, same thing. You know, what I was describing earlier, where your thoughts become your beliefs, become your actions, become your habits, become your results. Often those people look for tactical solutions to their financial problems and they don't. To your point, Chris, start at the beginning here right. You got to fix your thoughts first, right? Yeah. And so, you know, just building someone a financial plan or slapping them on a budget. It's not going to work. 

It might have… short term… you might see a short term improvement in their finances, but. it's not long term. It's the same as dieting. You know, it's like that. Right. Tell me. I can only eat a thousand calories a day and I'll do it for a week. But I might lose weight. But it's not going to be sustainable. You know, I'm not going to live the rest of my life like that. 

Christopher

Right. Exactly. That would be brutal. 

Jenny

Yeah. I actually don't do, I don't I am a budget DBA because I've spent a whole career building financial forecasts and budgets and holding different people accountable to them. But in my program, we actually don't do budgets because my clients, once they've made that transition to having an abundance mindset and then I help them adopt mindful spending habits right? So they're spending from a place of intentionality. And then we have clear goals that they're working towards. And we've automated that whole process and start saving towards those goals. They don't need the budget. The budget is unnecessary, right? Because every time they open their wallet, they're asking themselves, What do I want more? Do I want this new dress that just happened to catch my eye or do I want that vacation that's part of my vision for this year?

And when you have adopted mindfulness as your state of being, you take those pauses and then you make decisions that are in your best interest and that are aligned with your vision. And when you do so, then you then I have not found a client yet…who has needed a budget. 

Christopher

I think that's so right. And it's a very holistic approach because the awareness and the attention, you know. When you… when you truly do have awareness, mindfulness, that money is just not going to rush out. You're going to be thinking a lot more about it. And it's not going to be, you know, I think the tapes that we get stuck in in the back of our head, those impulses  is due to a lack of awareness. And we do. And so this is what truly drew me to having this conversation, because I think it's so important that people really understand, how, that we have to deprogram that do we have to unpack it? And it's I think it's something that, you know, changes, too, with every season with every season of your life when you get gallops and you have young kids like, OK, I don't want to spend money on my kids, you know? 

And then and then also what what am I showing them by how I spend my money on them? You know, all those questions come up again. And I think gets back to that awareness and intentionality. And then this beginning with the end in mind, like, how do you want this to end? 

Jenny

Mm hmm. Exactly. Yep. And if you're guided by that vision and that vision is so meaningful to you that you can see and feel it coming to fruition, even if are buried in debt and you know, you're working a job or you're underpaid and you have inadequate savings or ability to save if you've still got that vision, it's so crystal clear, it's going to pull you in the right direction. You're going to start to make..take intentional steps in the right direction. 

Christopher

But but having that is the key there and yes, that was gold right there. And I think that that's a great point. We're going to put a bow on this section, going to the lightning round. 

And so I want to ask you a few questions that we ask everybody. 

And so what soft skills do you think helped your career the most? 

Jenny

Oh, this is a good question. People don't focus enough on soft skills. Yeah, I would say hands down listening intently, you know, so you can learn a lot when you just stop talking, when you just zip it. And also, you know, having a mindfulness practice and being able to stop the mental chatter. So just because your mouth isn't going, oftentimes your head is going to stop all of that. And just listen when you listen intently it conveys to the other party that you have a genuine interest in what they're saying and a genuine interest in them. And that's very fruitful when it comes to earning trust, because often our conversations in finance and in business are really negotiations, right? Even if they're not painted like that, they're often when we're negotiating all day long and the best way to negotiate effectively is to earn trust and then to collaborate on a solution. Both parties and listening intently helps foster both of those. 

Christopher

That's great. What was the worst money advice you've ever received? 

Jenny 41:22  

To get rid of my student loan debt? You know, this idea that all debt is bad debt. You know, I, I had sold a piece of real estate that I owned in Nashville, and I took the money from that. And I paid off my student loans, even though I personally wasn't bothered by the debt. But I was like, Okay, well, I've been told I shouldn't have this. So I paid them off. And, you know, and then later on, I actually ran the numbers. And I was like, if I hadn't taken that money and paid off those loans, what would my net worth look like now? And it would be better. 

Christopher Nelson  41:51  

Right? 

Jenny  41:52  

You know, I'm not saying everybody needs to have that same perspective, but you need to... any piece of advice that you're given a particular money.. is you need to sit with that and think, think about, you know, personal finances personal. Think about how that how following that advice would would make you feel and if you're being shamed into doing something, ask yourself if that shame is coming externally, or if it's coming from inside,

Christopher Nelson  42:14  

Right? Oh, that's good. That's real good. How do you keep learning?

Jenny  42:21  

Oooh. I invest a lot of money every year, in courses, in seminars, in retreats and in books. You know, I have a membership to Mindvalley, which is an excellent platform for learning - so many different topics on there. Most of my free time I spend learning. Like I'm not lying when I say I'm a Constant Learner. Like, I'm completely ignorant to what's on TV, or what movies are out. So when asked me about "Cocaine Bear" the other day, and I was like, What in the world? Are you talking about? Like? You know, like, I just I don't, I don't find any enjoyment in most of that stuff. So I spend most of my hours when I'm not working on really learning. I'm just, that's where I find joy.

Christopher Nelson  43:03  

Oh, that's great. And then, you know, with all of this in all you do, well, what do you do to recharge?

Jenny  43:11  

Yeah, so I, honestly, I love traveling. And I love staying in luxury hotels, and I love a luxury spa. And so I don't spend a lot of money on stuff that doesn't matter to me. So my husband and I, we share like a 2016 car together. We don't have, you know...I could go and have a nice car, but I would rather spend lavishly on travel and you know, self care and I feel like I get an ROI from that because it is how I recharge. It's how I feel refreshed and better and you know, ready to get back into the swing of things. So that's my, I guess I'd say, I don't know, I shouldn't use this term but - guilty pleasure.

Christopher Nelson  43:53  

Yeah, cuz I don't I don't think you need to feel guilty over it at all. I think that's where you choose to invest in it. The ROI speaks for itself.

Jenny  44:00  

Exactly. Yep. Yeah, it's part of my vision.

Christopher Nelson  44:04  

So what would then be to wrap this up? What would be the advice that you would give to your younger self, we say for working in tech, but I think, you know, working and growing as an executive. Yeah.

Jenny  44:17  

Yeah. I would say don't get hung up on anything. You know. We...you... have a long life and a very long career. And oftentimes, we get so hung up on the promotion, we didn't get the raise that didn't meet our expectations, the coworker that's given us a lot of heartburn. And we need to step back and realize that like, in a couple years from now, you're not gonna remember that coworkers name? No, like, right? Like most of this stuff really is not all that important. You should find ways to enjoy the current moment, you know, to be enjoying what you're doing today. 

But, you know, understand that you know, as you progress in your you're gonna come across all kinds of people and experiences, and some of them aren't going to be all that pleasant. And you just need to take a growth mindset to that, you know. So every time I've come into a challenging situation in my career, I've thought, Hmm, why is this presenting itself to me? Why am I going through this? Like, what lesson am I supposed to be learning from this? You know, I became an effective leader of people, because I dealt with a lot of difficult personalities and that was...those were my tests I had to go through in order to learn how to work with different kinds of people, and build collaborative teams.

Christopher Nelson  45:35  

That's great. So thank you so much for spending the time with us today, Jenny, how can people find out more about you and what you offer as a money coach?

Jenny  45:44  

Yeah, well, they can follow me on LinkedIn, that's where I'm most present. I also have a platform called blissandwealth.com. I offer one on one coaching services through that platform, as well as a number of resources, most of which are free, and then I have a course.

So I took my three part coaching program, and I put it in course form, so people could do it at their own pace and independently without having to work with a coach.

Christopher Nelson  46:12  

Well, we'll get those links from you. And we'll make sure and put those into the episode page so that people can access you there. And I want to thank you today. And for all of you listening, I just want to say thank you so much. We are a brand new podcast, so please subscribe on Apple podcast, Google and Spotify, wherever you have a chance to do so. 

And then also please leave us a review. Let us know what you found helpful. And if you have something that you want to recommend to us, ask… ask@techcareersandmoney talk.com

Ask us. We want to understand. What your burning questions?  And number three, please tell other technology employees about this. We want this to be a resource for you so that you can learn about how to grow your career, build wealth and reach your financial goals. Thank you so much.